Toremifene and 6-oxo

[azweightlifte]

Hi all, this is my 1st post on this forum. I am not an aas user, but due to thyroid problems, my HPTA activity is usually low, and I have naturally low testosterone levels. My test levels usually run between 300-400ng/dl. I want to boost it up naturally by stimulating the HPTA. Has anyone ever used Toremifene, and 6-oxo, to boost natty test, without it being for PCT?

 

[VINYL]

Interesting question..... has anyone?

 

[smoke dog]

It is my understanding that there is no need or use in running a SERM and AI simultaneously. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Basically an AI reduces estrogen levels in the body. Your bodies primary means of producing estrogen are from the aromatization of testosterone. In an attempt for homeostasis, the body produces more testosterone to be converted to estrogen(which it will not because of the AI's).

A SERM, on the other hand, works by binding estrogen receptor sites, while maintaining in vivo estrogen. The body "senses" that there is no estrogen peasant in the tissue in which the SERM has bound. In response the production of testosterone is increased so that it can be converted into estrogen by the aromatase enzyme.

In summary, a SERM makes the body think there is no estrogen, and an AI actually eliminates estrogen. The body perceives both as the same, and responds the same (by increasing testosterone for conversion to the perceived or actual lack of estrogen). So, i cannot foresee any additional benefit of using both a SERM and an AI simultaneously.

Here is a simple and safe suggestion. Try 25-75mg DHEA, 500mg trione(original 6oxo), and something to raise free testosterone like ActivaTe by Designer Supplements.

 

[azweightlifte]

Which would be more potent for raising Test levels? Your combo, or the Toremifene, and maybe Dhea?

 

[VINYL]

from what i understand SERMs and DHEA counteract one another... since the DHEA cant metabolize because of the SERM or something..... there is a thread floating around that was talking about this.

 

[Hard Knox]

6 OXO should do wonders for your natural production. Ive taken it with great success, you should feel the effects within a week.

 

[smoke dog]

After re-reading your original post i must encourage you to get further testing done. If you have had any blood work done, please post it up here for myself and others to take a stab at.

It also seems to me that if you have hypothyroidism, then your best bet is definitely not going to be to crutch your thyroid problem by indirectly stimulating testosterone levels. You must first address the primary problem with your thyroid. Then, and only then, would i begin to consider other means of hormone manipulation to increase testosterone.

T3 actually works to stimulates the secretion of HGH in the pituitary and igf-1 in the liver........

 

[azweightlifte]

I'm on thyroid medication, have been for several years. I've had my blood work done several times, and i'm consistently in the low 400's for testosterone, and under 50 for free testosterone.

 

[azweightlifte]

Would 6 -oxo and DHEA give me the desired results I seek? What dosage of DHEA? Also has anyone taken TongKat Ali, has anyone seen real actual studies in which it reduced SHBG, and increased free testosterone levels.

 

[azweightlifte]

Let me give you guys a little background about me. I'm 29 I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism 3 years ago, and ever since then I've had slight problems with libido, and over all energy. I take levothyroxine for my thyroid. I work as a college strength coach, and am currently working on my doctorate in exercise physiology, so I have a pretty good understanding of human physiology, especially the HPTA system. I'm looking for an increase in libido, and increase in both total and free testosterone and T/E ratio, as well as a decrease in SHBG and possible T-3-T-4 production via endogenous methods. I have been doing research on Drive by Applied Nutraceuticals, and other products with high levels of Forskolin. Would you recommend 6-oxo, DHEA, and Drive, or another similar porduct for increasing endogenous production, or would you recommend Toremifene and Drive more so? Either are possible to acquire. I'm just looking for advice form people who have possible taken these combo's stacks. My typical total testosterone is 385-435-ng/dl, where 8-9 years ago before my thyroid issues it was in the low to mid 700's. My desire is to get my test levels back up into the mid 600's to mid 700's.

 

[smoke dog]

First off, forget the toremifene. This is a drug which i would not recommend outside of short term use for PCT or gyno.

By itself, androstenetrione will lower estrogen and raise testosterone levels. With DHEA, the testosterone boosting effects androstenetrione may be synergisticly increased. Yet, this estrogen depleted state is not healthy for long periods of time. Cycles of 4-6 weeks is as long as i would go if you decide to use an AI to raise testosterone.

Try some natural testosterone promoting supplements first. ZMA is were i would begin. Fenugreek is an inexpensive and fairly effective consideration. Alpha Drive is on sale at nutraplanet for like 10 bucks too. Ohh, I have heard nothing but positive feedback about Drive by rpn. So that may be a good option for you as well.:thumbsup:

 

[chim_chim]

First off, forget the toremifene. This is a drug which i would not recommend outside of short term use for PCT or gyno.

By itself, androstenetrione will lower estrogen and raise testosterone levels. With DHEA, the testosterone boosting effects androstenetrione may be synergisticly increased. Yet, this estrogen depleted state is not healthy for long periods of time. Cycles of 4-6 weeks is as long as i would go if you decide to use an AI to raise testosterone.

Try some natural testosterone promoting supplements first. ZMA is were i would begin. Fenugreek is an inexpensive and fairly effective consideration. Alpha Drive is on sale at nutraplanet for like 10 bucks too. Ohh, I have heard nothing but positive feedback about Drive by rpn. So that may be a good option for you as well.:thumbsup:

The OP is looking at drug-mediated therapies (I consider 6OXO a drug) in any case, so I wouldn't rule out Toremifine out of hand. Clomid and Tamoxifen have some toxicity, but I don't know that about Toremifine.

The whole point of taking an AI is that your body will try to restore the normal estrogen levels, so taking a moderate amount of an AI for an extended period might simply change the Test/Est ratio, but not the absolute amount of blood estrogen. Pat Arnold has talked about the long-term use of 6OXO creating something like a new somatotype -- more masculine, less femine features -- because of the increased Test/Est ratio.