Everyone buying a SERM online should read this ...

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    Everyone buying a SERM online should read this ...


    Steroid Law - Rick Collins On Research Chemicals Only

    While SERM's fall into a definite grey area of the law it is a good idea to know exactly what you are dealing with and the possible consequences when buying these products. It is a personal decision but in making that decision you should have all the facts at your disposal.

    This post is not meant to sway anyone from buying research chems and while I am a rep for a company that sells a PCT product over the counter, it is not my intention to scare people into using our products. In fact, I will ordinarily post that having a SERM on hand is preferred. Whether or not you use it is your choice. This is an informational post only ...

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    Interesting read I'll be staying all-natural for quite some time, and by then the pro-hormones will probably be banned and I won't be temped.
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    What everyone needs to do is become friends with a doctor so they can get scripts for their SERMS. Its the only way to go.
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    I dont think that a lot of people realize that. I believe he talks further about it in this pdf. If not its still got lots of good OTC legality info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    I dont think that a lot of people realize that. I believe he talks further about it in this pdf. If not its still got lots of good OTC legality info.
    I find it interesting that the government has the power to change the definition of a substance based solely on circumstantial evidence. Pretty scary really! And with the recent rash of busts (there was one the other day) of online sites selling "research chems' it makes you think twice. If they have your info in their DB and all of a sudden the government decides that these research chems are being sold for human use it puts one at risk ...
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    But wouldn't you need possession to get in trouble for this kind of thing as a consumer?

    Also, that is a great read and thanks for posting it up -- but it seems directed more at suppliers than consumers ya know?

    I have no problem with a SERM-less PCT, and actually I love the way you set yours up dmangiarelli -- I also vouch for it's effectiveness!

    But one thing is that I have never, ever heard of a consumer finding himself in trouble for ordering from a research site. Possibly if you bought absolutely obscene amounts from numerous sites and were suspected of dealing them out of house like a common drug dealer, you might draw some attention.

    But for the government or law enforcement agencies to start pulling information out of a database and prosecuting individuals for products that that they may not even be currently in possession of seems far-fetched. It would be similar to telling an officer that you bought weed 9 months ago and then him filing charges against you for something (I'm not ever sure what it would be!)
    Last edited by Red Dog; 05-19-2008 at 08:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    But wouldn't you need possession to get in trouble for this kind of thing as a consumer?

    Also, that is a great read and thanks for posting it up -- but it seems directed more at suppliers than consumers ya know?

    I have no problem with a SERM-less PCT, and actually I love the way you set yours up dmangiarelli -- I also vouch for it's effectiveness!

    But one thing is that I have never, ever heard of a consumer finding himself in trouble for ordering from a research site. Possibly if you bought absolutely obscene amounts from numerous sites and were suspected of dealing them out of house like a common drug dealer, you might draw some attention.

    But for the government or law enforcement agencies to start pulling information out of a database and prosecuting individuals for products that that they may not even be currently in possession of seems far-fetched. It would be similar to telling an officer that you bought weed 9 months ago and then him filing charges against you for something (I'm not ever sure what it would be!)
    The database is full of names of customers, i.e. people that purchased a product. I believe that is all they would need IF THEY DECIDED TO GO THAT ROUTE. It is doubtful that they would go after consumers, however. It is not an impossibility as all it would take is someone (high up at the FDA or DEA) to get a wild hair up their ass to clean up the world of dirty, stinkin, steroid abusers!
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    He speaks about controlled substances. Controlled substances (Schedule I-V) have very strict laws against them. SERM's are not controlled substances. Prescription yes, not controlled substances. They can legally be bought online using an online questionnaire along with faxing your ID, etc. At some pharmacies they're cheaper than OTC PCT products. There's many legit online pharmacies in the US that sell prescription (non-controlled) meds legally. My aunt who has brest cancer has been using it for years as the prices at her online pharmacy are much lower & she has no insurance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    He speaks about controlled substances. Controlled substances (Schedule I-V) have very strict laws against them. SERM's are not controlled substances. Prescription yes, not controlled substances. They can legally be bought online using an online questionnaire along with faxing your ID, etc. At some pharmacies they're cheaper than OTC PCT products. There's many legit online pharmacies in the US that sell prescription (non-controlled) meds legally. My aunt who has brest cancer has been using it for years as the prices at her online pharmacy are much lower & she has no insurance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    When they kick in my door they can seize my downloaded music and movies too. F em.
    ditto
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    I like when Rick Collins says how would they know you are not using the chemicals for research. Ahhhhhhh cause they are flavored lol


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    On the bright side, that looks to be from 2003. I'm not lessening the impact of the article, very interesting, simply stating that it's 5 years old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    On the bright side, that looks to be from 2003. I'm not lessening the impact of the article, very interesting, simply stating that it's 5 years old.
    I only posted in light of the current climate in the industry. Several online retailers have been taken down recently so it has some relevance ... I also get numerous PM's from people asking me about the legality of SERM's, I found that article in my googling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmangiarelli View Post
    I only posted in light of the current climate in the industry. Several online retailers have been taken down recently so it has some relevance ... I also get numerous PM's from people asking me about the legality of SERM's, I found that article in my googling.
    I wasn't trying to discount it at all, sorry if it came out that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Reverend View Post
    What everyone needs to do is become friends with a doctor so they can get scripts for their SERMS. Its the only way to go.
    Or order it legally from a canadian online pharmacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger1 View Post
    Or order it legally from a canadian online pharmacy.
    But pending its ackaging and size of order, wont they have the right to "investigate" it? Just like things cant go form here to australlia...
    I would feel more safe ordering form my own country due to no border crossing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    He speaks about controlled substances. Controlled substances (Schedule I-V) have very strict laws against them. SERM's are not controlled substances. Prescription yes, not controlled substances. They can legally be bought online using an online questionnaire along with faxing your ID, etc. At some pharmacies they're cheaper than OTC PCT products. There's many legit online pharmacies in the US that sell prescription (non-controlled) meds legally. My aunt who has brest cancer has been using it for years as the prices at her online pharmacy are much lower & she has no insurance.
    Exactly. Tamoxifen, Toremifene, and Raloxifene are all still used in breast cancer treatments today. Frequently people forget what the actual intended purpose of these compounds was from the beginning.....and no it wasn't to PCT from AAS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Exactly. Tamoxifen, Toremifene, and Raloxifene are all still used in breast cancer treatments today. Frequently people forget what the actual intended purpose of these compounds was from the beginning.....and no it wasn't to PCT from AAS.
    This is true but in the article this is covered. If the government (FDA, DEA, ATF, whatever) determines that these chemicals are being used for a different purpose than their intended use, they can then make them illegal.

    If you have breast cancer, chances are you are getting these chemicals via prescription rather than an online research chem supplier that makes these chems specifically for research on animals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmangiarelli View Post
    This is true but in the article this is covered. If the government (FDA, DEA, ATF, whatever) determines that these chemicals are being used for a different purpose than their intended use, they can then make them illegal.

    If you have breast cancer, chances are you are getting these chemicals via prescription rather than an online research chem supplier that makes these chems specifically for research on animals.
    Yeah, i know. I was just throwing it out there for those that didn't know.

    I agree that buying research chemicals online is risky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Yeah, i know. I was just throwing it out there for those that didn't know.

    I agree that buying research chemicals online is risky.
    At this juncture i'd say it is more safe than risky but I found it interesting and had no idea of the powers that the government has to make it illegal based on usage. With all the postings on the forums i am sure they could do that at any time! I am pretty sure they know how to use google to search for research chems and i would be surprised if they haven't read this thread and lol'd ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmangiarelli View Post
    At this juncture i'd say it is more safe than risky but I found it interesting and had no idea of the powers that the government has to make it illegal based on usage. With all the postings on the forums i am sure they could do that at any time! I am pretty sure they know how to use google to search for research chems and i would be surprised if they haven't read this thread and lol'd ...
    If they are, lets all wave at them

    Actually, it's more like......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    If they are, lets all wave at them

    Actually, it's more like......
    ROFLMAO!
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    Men are prescribed SERM's for existing gyno too. As for the Research chems I'd never trust 'em. I know too many people who used them & didn't recover
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    Men are prescribed SERM's for existing gyno too. As for the Research chems I'd never trust 'em. I know too many people who used them & didn't recover
    Which is why it's better to just order from an online pharmacy that carries products by billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies. Canada has plenty of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Which is why it's better to just order from an online pharmacy that carries products by billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies. Canada has plenty of them.
    Correct. A lot of laws completely suck & are obsurd. But others can be your best friend if you know how to take advantage of them. With the multi-billion dollar pharm industry like you mentioned, when you order online and fill out the form with you DOB, license #, etc. - the online doctors don't care whether you're a man or a woman. They don't even care how old you are as long as you're over 18. As much money that's involved, plus how loose the laws are with non-controlled prescription meds - online docs will prescribe any non-controlled prescription med to anyone over 18. Including stuff like Serm's, SSRI Anti-depressants, Antibiotics, & others. And it's 100% legal. Plus convenient since the doctor forwards your script to a pharmacy & the meds are shipped right to you. However as far as controlled/scheduled meds go, like opiate painkillers, benzos, methamphetamine, etc. - the online ordering laws are severe for them. It's a felony to order controlled meds online without a prescription.
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