[Canadianguy]

Quick question about taking trib during pct

ive been told a couple diff things. one was to take it when u start the nolva or take it (at a lower dose) after ur last injection and up it during pct

any word on this?

[Canadianguy]

no word on this? could it be bad to take tribulus before u start nolva?

[futurepilot]

T. terrestris has consistently failed to increase testosterone levels in controlled studies.[1][2][3] It has also failed to demonstrate strength-enhancing properties.[4]

1^ Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS (2000). "Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men". Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 10 (3): 340-59. PMID 10997957.
2^ Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS (2001). "Endocrine and lipid responses to chronic androstenediol-herbal supplementation in 30 to 58 year old men". J Am Coll Nutr 20 (5): 520-8. PMID 11601567.
3^ Neychev VK, & Mitev VI. (2005). "The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men". J Ethnopharmacol 101 (1-3): 319-23. PMID 15994038.
4^ Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM. (2007). "The Effect of Five Weeks of Tribulus terrestris Supplementation on Muscle Strength and Body Composition During Preseason Training in Elite Rugby League Players". J Strength Cond Res 21 (2): 348-53. PMID 17530942.

[rabican]

Quoted from dinoiii

"Tribulus Terrestris

Here is an example of a supplement with quite the storied past. Tribulus terrestris has a long history of use in Eastern Europe and China as a liver tonic and natural hormone stimulator. It has also been used for sexual dysfunction and infertility. Western practitioners became aware of the Bulgarian pharmaceutical (Sopharma) product designated to treat hormonal insufficiency and a potential fertility therapy.

Tribestan is the trade name of a formula with tribulus and other herbs sold in Eastern Europe. After a strong underground following among bodybuilders brought it to the U.S., Sopharma licensed the formula to several American supplement companies for sale here. Company claims purport up to 30 percent testosterone increases in men and subsequent increased men's libido, strength of erections, and sperm production. Though the purported studies that support these claims are still outstanding in presentation, the supplement's cult following certainly raises an eyebrow.

The mechanism of action is purported to be increased secretion of LH from the pituitary. One thing warranting exploration is how tribulus does have a female-SPECIFIC stimulatation of FSH production. Again, this does not appear to be the case in males.

I have discussed at length in my Tribulus article some of the potential overlooked benefits, but I am going to step outside of that series here and report a link I see to another hormonal system that plays an important role in the post-cycle period. Tribulus terrestris provides a safe, non-hormonal stimulation of the endocrine system emphasizing testosterone AND estradiol (again, it is an LH stimulator) production and liver enhancement. The important point I want to make is that both of the aforementioned effects contribute to and augment the metabolic action of HGH and IGF-1 as both testosterone and estrogen increase their production.

Additionally, imperative effects of tribulus during the PCT time frame could be the improved libido production and increased sperm count noted. It also acts as a liver tonic that further contributes to better hormone production and phenomenal potential after C17-alkylated hormonal use. A little biochemistry recall: the liver synthesizes hormones from cholesterol and breaks down fats to EFAs, which also play major roles in hormone production.

One more positive. Tribulus boosts the break down of proteins to amino acids for the creation of new muscle cells, which directly impacts growth hormone. The more muscle you have, the more endogenous HGH the body will produce – and vice versa. The effect tribulus has on protein greatly complements the actions of growth hormone and creates better energy usage, exercise recovery, and stamina. For this reason, the herb offers significant benefits for professional athletes despite negative press.

From body composition studies that didn't show instantaneous "results" – the herb found itself placed very far down the list of some bodybuilder's arsenals. This is unfortunate because bodybuilding is a complete science (ok, so it may be my dream that all consider bodybuilding that, BUT THE HUMAN BODY VERY MUCH IS THE SCIENCE!!!)

It does not end there, the fruit and root of Tribulus terrestris also contain metabolites like phytosteroids, flavanoids, alkaloids, and glycosides. These bioactive compounds have a strong and beneficial effect on the immune, sexual, and reproductive systems. It also reduces cholesterol, helps to prevent kidney stones and has been reported to offer a sense of well being (more later on psychiatric effects of cycle and post-cycle use). One clinical study revealed it has the ability to dilate coronary arteries, making it an ideal heart tonic "

[dmangiarelli]

Originally Posted by futurepilot

T. terrestris has consistently failed to increase testosterone levels in controlled studies.[1][2][3] It has also failed to demonstrate strength-enhancing properties.[4]

1^ Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS (2000). "Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men". Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 10 (3): 340-59. PMID 10997957.
2^ Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS (2001). "Endocrine and lipid responses to chronic androstenediol-herbal supplementation in 30 to 58 year old men". J Am Coll Nutr 20 (5): 520-8. PMID 11601567.
3^ Neychev VK, & Mitev VI. (2005). "The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men". J Ethnopharmacol 101 (1-3): 319-23. PMID 15994038.
4^ Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM. (2007). "The Effect of Five Weeks of Tribulus terrestris Supplementation on Muscle Strength and Body Composition During Preseason Training in Elite Rugby League Players". J Strength Cond Res 21 (2): 348-53. PMID 17530942.

Jury's still out but the science doesn't lie ^^^. Might be good for a libido boost but not much else ...

[Canadianguy]

ah rabican great article bro thnx.

im just coming off a deca/test-E cycle . its been about 17 days since my last shot so im still feeling pretty good. started PCT about 4 days ago.

im taking nolvadex as main PCT but as for supplements ive been taking 750 mg of Trib and loading creatine monohydrate right now too.

other supps include BCAAs, L-arginine, vit c, multi vit, vit E , and fish oils (which are a staple for me anyways)

that being said im stronger today than ive been on my whole cycle, ill take that as a good sign for now.

any recommendations of where i can tinker with my supps would also be great.

ill keep posted if anyones interested for the next few weeks.

[rabican]

i would add ZMA and maybe a higher dose of tribulus.

...you could look up dinoiii's dosing regiment.

[Canadianguy]

Originally Posted by rabican

i would add ZMA and maybe a higher dose of tribulus.

...you could look up dinoiii's dosing regiment.

yea i was thinking of doubling the dosage on the trib add another capsule before bed bring me to 1500 mg.

i wasnt familar with zma until a a short while ago, a good read. now would that be soemthing for PCt or year round supplement? can i find it a nutrition store?

[Wolfenstein]

Alot of top minds in bb are urging use of trib now in pct, like dr.colker,dr.blechman. My style is alittle trib and psarm. BOOYEAH

[rabican]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Alot of top minds in bb are urging use of trib now in pct, like dr.colker,dr.blechman. My style is alittle trib and psarm. BOOYEAH

why?

------------

yes zma is year round. you can find it on nutraplanet.com for great prices, you can also find it at local stores.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by rabican

why?

------------

yes zma is year round. you can find it on nutraplanet.com for great prices, you can also find it at local stores.

Because they liked the findings of an increase of 52% increase of Test and DHT found when the extract was administered to primates in a recent study by phytomedicine.

[rabican]

link to study?...i misread you earlier and thought you said allot of tops minds argue the use of trib... doh!

[Canadianguy]

i link to thiss tudy would also be appreciated

as for now ive been off for 3 weeks+a day ive caught a nasty cold and its pissing me off, energy low because of that.

libido still high (its pretty high for me normally anyways im a bit of a horn dog) and my weight is still around 216lbs. id imagine another week or so this may drop a bit, only a bit i hope.

heres another question; anyone take vit b12 regularly?

[futurepilot]

Originally Posted by Canadianguy

heres another question; anyone take vit b12 regularly?

Yep, i think it helps with overall mood. and to some degree recouperation by lowering stress.

[Canadianguy]

been 5 weeks off for me 3 weeks into PCT and im still holding 216lbs and at night im about 218lbs.

libido high still and strength still up there, a slight dip but barely noticaeble, maybe a rep or 2 less on some weight.

i also plan to run the trib past my nolva, basically until the trib is gone. prob about another 2 -3 weeks of it.

and 1 question for anyone who can answer. im also taking creatine, i was gona stick on that for a while. i was reading that some bb'ers stay on creatine year round, at smaller doses. like 5 grams a day. anyone see a prob with this? i was gona stay on the creatine for a good time, maybe even up to my next cycle.

[rabican]

personally i cycle it because i dont want to desensitize my body to naturally producing it and become reliant on supplementing it...just my .2

Originally Posted by Canadianguy

been 5 weeks off for me 3 weeks into PCT and im still holding 216lbs and at night im about 218lbs.

libido high still and strength still up there, a slight dip but barely noticaeble, maybe a rep or 2 less on some weight.

i also plan to run the trib past my nolva, basically until the trib is gone. prob about another 2 -3 weeks of it.

and 1 question for anyone who can answer. im also taking creatine, i was gona stick on that for a while. i was reading that some bb'ers stay on creatine year round, at smaller doses. like 5 grams a day. anyone see a prob with this? i was gona stay on the creatine for a good time, maybe even up to my next cycle.