[pembroke3355]

This was dmangiarelli results after a Bold/P-Plex/Trena cycle very good stuff and thanks Don


PCT UPDATE - Blood Tests & Final Review

This is my final post on this PCT protocol. You are all free to keep asking questions and I will monitor the thread for that so that I can provide answers. The blood results are back and I will post the relevant numbers from them. All in all I would consider this PCT stack a success. I had some prolactin issues that I should have caught earlier because they developed on cycle. I finally realized what they were in PCT and addressed them with high doses of B-6. I will address toxicity issues with that in my review. Someone stated that without baseline numbers these numbers that I will present are useless. I would not say that but I will say that within 6 months I will be getting another blood test and I will not cycle before that happens. That way I will have some numbers for a baseline assessment of my test numbers. I will post those in here when I get them.


Blood Work Results

I will be scanning and attaching these results tomorrow.
First round 2 days post cycle:

Total Test: 7 (Normal 250-1100) ng/dL
Free Test: 1.9 (Normal 35-155) pg/mL
Estradiol: <20 (Normal 20-75) pg/mL

Second Round 31 days later

Total Test: 422 (Normal 250-1100) ng/dL
Free Test: 50.3 (Normal 35-155) pg/mL
Estradiol: 38 (Normal 20-75) pg/mL

Liver values also normalized as they were high on the first go around.

All in all I would consider this PCT a success. My numbers (although on the low end) are back in the normal ranges and my doctor is satisfied that for my age (I'll be 43 on May 9th) my numbers are pretty normal. He is suggesting taking another blood test within 6 months to determine what my baseline numbers are and at that time we will talk about options if the test is still on the low side. He did say that even though it is on the low end that it is not low enough to consider therapy. I will caveat here that I am not satisfied with my numbers being that low but that I will accept this as proof that in 30 days PCS/I3C/ZMA helped to raise testosterone levels to a "normal" range. This blood work also consisted of one dose of 300 mgs 6-oxo the night before (about 8 pm). The blood test was taken at 5 pm so the 6-oxo should not have influenced the test numbers much.


Final Review

My experience with this protocol after a Bold/P-Plex/Trena cycle that lasted for 8 weeks was successful. The dosages for the PH/DS were the following:
Weeks 1-8 Bold @ 800 mgs
Weeks 1-4 P-Plex 15/30/30/45
Weeks 5-8 Trena 20/30/40/50

PCT included the following products and dosages:
Post Cycle Support 30 days 4 caps/ED
SAMe 3 weeks @ 400 mgs/ED
I3C @ 600 mgs/ED
ZMA @ 3 caps/ED
6-oxo (starting after PCS for 3 weeks) 300/200/100
B-6 (For prolactin issues) 600-800mgs/ED (for 2 weeks)

*The cycle I did was really suppressive and I am not sure if it is because I never fully recovered from a previous Methyl-E cycle that I used only 6-oxo for PCT (didn't do blood work) or if the Bold cycle was really that suppressive. I waited 8 weeks between PCT and the Bold Cycle. Nonetheless, I will find out with the next round of blood work what really happened.

Let's start off with why I consider this PCT successful. I was extremely suppressed on this cycle so to see my levels come back into the "normal" range is a good sign. My doctor was worried that i was so suppressed that there was no way that my test would recover. I was less skeptical. I am not saying that this protocol was the best choice, only that by the standards laid out by the lab that my levels recovered to the "normal" range. DO NOT READ MORE INTO THIS THAN I AM STATING!

This PCT has proven that for me, not using a SERM and recovering in an acceptable amount of time is possible. More PCT's with blood work need to be ran by more members here to further this theory. I encourage anyone that runs a PCT (SERM or Non)to get blood work done. Blood work is the ONLY way to know if you have recovered. I am not saying that this protocol will work 100% for everyone but with more blood work we will be able to prove the viability of Trans-Res as a PCT agent and one that is easily obtainable without the questionable quality (Some SERMs have been found to be underdosed or at least did not work for preventing gyno) or legality (by legality I am referring strictly to the grey area of the law they fall into) of research chems.

I am not advising everyone to run out and by this protocol for PCT. My intent with this log was to show that we need to think more about alternatives to SERMs. I only attempted to show that one can recover in an acceptable amount of time using strictly OTC products for PCT. I believe I have shown that to be true. PCT is a personal choice. It took me a lot of time and reading to determine what was right for me even for this extremely suppressive cycle. I would encourage anyone that is planning to do a cycle and PCT to do the research and determine the best course of PCT for themselves. This log was not intended as a sales pitch for Anabolic Innovations. As I have stated several times throughout this log, I purchased everything I used in this PCT and started the log long before I became a rep. I became a rep because of the log not the other way around.

Now for the good stuff!

Why use Post Cycle Support for PCT?

I wrote up an FAQ and posted it here and I would encourage everyone who has questions about Post Cycle Support to read it. There is a lot of good information in that FAQ. PCS contains a variety of ingredients that were specially formulated for an Epistane Cycle. I believed it could be used for any cycle as a base for an OTC PCT.

Trans-Resveratrol:

There have been numerous studies showing it's effects in the presence of estrogen as an estrogen antagonist in breast tissue. AI does not sponsor the research to say what we want it to say. The research is 100% independent and unbiased. Trans-Res is very promissing in the area of cancer research and as we know that is where Nolva, Clomid and a host of other PCT products have come from.

I3C:

Even though there is considerable controversy over including I3C in PCT I am a fan now. My estradiol levels were decimated by the cycle I did. Using the I3C I believe helped to control the estradiol levels as my test came back. I have to say that the lower end normal levels of estradiol probably are related to the fact that my test is also on the lower end of normal values. Nonetheless, I would include I3C in any future PCT I run. In theory I3C channels out or metabolizes the estrogens out of the body and therefore helps in PCT to control runaway estrogen production. On a side note I3C also helps in the liver to process out toxins and thus strengthens the action of SAMe.

SAMe:

SAMe is used in PCT as a liver detoxifier. After an oral cycle you need to detoxify the liver of the methylated and non-methylated compounds. The liver still has to process the compounds even if they are not methylated. The non-methyls are easier on the liver, however.

ZMA:

ZMA is purported to raise testosterone levels but the studies I found that supported this were mostly sponsored by supplement companies. The first producer of ZMA, SNAC Systems, was founded by Victor Conte (BALCO) and he has a patent pending on the formulation. There were studies done on Washington and UCLA football players that showed increases in total and free testosterone and raised levels of IGF-1.

6-oxo:

I chose 6-oxo over other AI's because there haven't been reported cases of loss of libido using the recommended dosages. Loss of libido has been reported at recommended dosages of AI's containing ATD and 6-Bromo so I tend to stay away from those products for PCT. You are free to chose whichever AI you want ...

B-6:

B-6 in higher dosages can cause numbing of the extremities and some nerve damage as was pointed out by dinoii. I did not experience this and from the published studies that I read these symptoms are reversible when the extreme dosages are stopped.
__________________

[poacher]

How is your Libido - Glade to hear your PCT was a success

[mattikus]

Good stuff. This pct is almost exactly the same as one I did back in January, from which I recovered very nicely. I agree that the use of SERMs is not always necessary. Thanks for posting bloodwork. Sounds like a very cool doctor.

[MuscleBound1337]

Ok fine you convinced me. I'm ordering some PCS right now.

[stxnas]

This wasn't Pembroke's cycle, it was Dmangiarelli's. He just came up with the idea to post it in the pct forum...not sure why I didn't think of that, lol

And FWIIW, Dmang started all of this BEFORE he was a rep. We really liked his log and Crowler offered him a representative position as a result.

Post Cycle Support PCT results!

[pembroke3355]

Yes that was dmang cycle I am currently on pct from a h-drol cycle with PCS and I will be posting bloodwork for that but the results so far are positive

[dmangiarelli]

Originally Posted by poacher

How is your Libido - Glade to hear your PCT was a success

Libido was back in a little over two weeks. It is 110% now!

[thesinner]

That is AWESOME, Don.

[dmangiarelli]

Originally Posted by thesinner

That is AWESOME, Don.

Thanks Bob. 415 point rise in 31 days for a 43 y/o guy ain't bad.

[Problem]

So do you advice the people on havoc and clones to try this Kind of PCT?

I mean you were on a PPlex/trena/bold and that PCT kinda worked, how would it not work on a mild cycle like Havoc?

Good work dman!

[Craigmatthew]

Excellent to see someone pushing the envelope and not just being a forum 'lemming' and shouting "SERM!!"

refreshing, and dmangiarelli has been great for help and support during my planning of my PCT, which will be very similar to his, and I will have blood work to post as well. Hope mine goes as well as his

[pembroke3355]

Originally Posted by dmangiarelli

Thanks Bob. 415 point rise in 31 days for a 43 y/o guy ain't bad.

Yes that is awesome bro

[zbtboy]

Originally Posted by Problem

So do you advice the people on havoc and clones to try this Kind of PCT?

I mean you were on a PPlex/trena/bold and that PCT kinda worked, how would it not work on a mild cycle like Havoc?

Good work dman!

I don't have bloodwork to back any of my claims up, but I recently finished an Epi cycle where i ran 40/50/50/50 for the dosage along with POST Cycle Support on cycle. For PCT I ran POST Cycle Support and DHEA only and both on-cycle and post-cycle were the best experiences I've had thus far with epi based cycles. My libido, which is usually the most noticeable side, was never a problem and my recovery was great.