[nunes]

Originally Posted by dmangiarelli

And you have seen blood work to prove this? I have seen blood work on people that ran a 6 week pulse with epistane that were close to 100% suppressed ...

I made a rpn havoc 20mg ed and bold 800mg ed for 5 weeks and I only lowered my test levels by 50%(before pct),and it still was in the normal range(I always do blood work after cycles), and for people that does mild cycles with compounds like bold, furazadrol, 11-oxo, etc I bet with you they will never be shutdown(for normal dosage and duration cycles of course).
the level of shutdown depends on the individual, there are guys that have very week results from orals( my case) and its difficult for them to be 100%suppressed and others that get suppressed very easily, you cant generalize this question...

[ImJ2x]

Originally Posted by dmangiarelli

Just one thing to note here. I have seen several people run Pulsing cycles and say, "I don't feel shutdown", but those that have gotten bloodwork actually were. So the only positive way to tell if you are shutdown is to have blood work done. "feeling" shutdown and "being" shutdown are two totally different things.

You say a "smart" pulsing cycle as if this is the end all, be all of 17aa methyls. I lol'd. Get blood work done and post it up here so we can see if you are or are not shutdown ... I bet you are.

That's a pretty brazen supposition on your part, and I hope you're wrong. In my own defense, I actually did get my testosterone level checked about 9 months ago, as my libido was in the tank, and I was experiencing some erectile dysfunction. (This was before I'd ever taken anything "hormonal.") My test measured in at 200-something -- definitely on the low end. But the doc wasn't overly concerned. He said it wasn't that low for my age (now 46), and he attributed it to the serious stress I was under at work, and in my relationship.
Fast-forward to today...
I ended all the stress in my relationship, by ending the relationship, lol. But my stress level at work is even higher than it was 9 months ago. (I need a new job.) And I'm now winding down my Superdrol pulse, and I'm having a hard time believing that I might be shut down. My nuts haven't shrunk at all, I'm having no ED issues whatsoever, and I'm way hornier than I was 9 months ago. If I am shut down, I highly recommend it, lol. (I suppose I may also be suffering from undiagnosed Gigantism, as I also display none of those symptoms.)
And if you're gonna lol at my silly attempt at "smart" cycling, at least allow me to re-explain my cycle, in case you didn't quite catch the subtle nuances of my particular protocol.
I flat-out don't believe in the standard every-other-day pulse cycles. I don't think the one day off between doses is enough to prevent shutdown -- I think it will still gradually occur. (In fact, as I have stated several times, I believe pulsing 20mg every other day will shut you down just as much as dosing 10mg every day in a straight cycle.) So my solution is to dose (and lift) on 3 consecutive days, followed by 4 consecutive days "off." My whole theory is that the 4 consecutive off days is sufficient time for recovery. In fact, I think the HPTA "bounceback" I'm getting on my off days is what's responsible for my greatly improved libido.
As I said earlier, I will use my 6oxoExtreme to ensure that my HPTA is up and running. But I honestly think it may not be necessary.
And this whole thing started with my desire that PCS include some type of AI -- in which case I probably would choose it over Ergo's product. I've always been a fan of your company, and I've used most of your products.

[nunes]

Originally Posted by ImJ2x

And this whole thing started with my desire that PCS include some type of AI -- in which case I probably would choose it over Ergo's product. I've always been a fan of your company, and I've used most of your products.

I agree with you...

[ImJ2x]

Originally Posted by nunes

I agree with you...

So do I.

[xtgear]

Originally Posted by ImJ2x

So do I.

we are 3 on agreement...

[ImJ2x]

Originally Posted by xtgear

we are 3 on agreement...

Make that 4.

[dmangiarelli]

I guess I would retort by saying that doing a cycle whether it is pulsed or not will shut yo down. In your case because you are taking 4 days off and 3 on it may be less apparent but the only way to know is by getting blood work done.

I am 42, nearly 43 and I just ended a Bold/P-Plex/Trena cycle. It was killer! i put on mass like crazy! I went to the doc and told him what i did and I threw in a few extras so he'd have a reason to give me blood work. I told him i experienced some testicular shrinkage, loss of libido and sore nipples. He wrote me the requisition as i was telling him this. He was actually really cool about it. he asked me all kinds of questions and said he was pretty impressed with my knowledge of the endocrine system and how it recovers.

I guess my point is that a "smart" cycle means that you researched the hell out of the compound you are going to take and you take the responsibility of going to the doc and getting bloodwork done so you a) know to what extent you are or are not shutdown and b) you are sure that you have recovered in a preplanned period of time. I cannot speak to the "smartness" of a pulsed cycle. It is still a cycle with a steroid and should be treated as such.

Have you guys read through dinoii's PCT papers? If not I highly suggest you take the time to read it and understand it and then you will know why it wouldn't be wise to add an AI into PCS ...

Good luck with your cycle and PCT and if you have any questions i'd be happy to answer them.

Originally Posted by ImJ2x

That's a pretty brazen supposition on your part, and I hope you're wrong. In my own defense, I actually did get my testosterone level checked about 9 months ago, as my libido was in the tank, and I was experiencing some erectile dysfunction. (This was before I'd ever taken anything "hormonal.") My test measured in at 200-something -- definitely on the low end. But the doc wasn't overly concerned. He said it wasn't that low for my age (now 46), and he attributed it to the serious stress I was under at work, and in my relationship.
Fast-forward to today...
I ended all the stress in my relationship, by ending the relationship, lol. But my stress level at work is even higher than it was 9 months ago. (I need a new job.) And I'm now winding down my Superdrol pulse, and I'm having a hard time believing that I might be shut down. My nuts haven't shrunk at all, I'm having no ED issues whatsoever, and I'm way hornier than I was 9 months ago. If I am shut down, I highly recommend it, lol. (I suppose I may also be suffering from undiagnosed Gigantism, as I also display none of those symptoms.)
And if you're gonna lol at my silly attempt at "smart" cycling, at least allow me to re-explain my cycle, in case you didn't quite catch the subtle nuances of my particular protocol.
I flat-out don't believe in the standard every-other-day pulse cycles. I don't think the one day off between doses is enough to prevent shutdown -- I think it will still gradually occur. (In fact, as I have stated several times, I believe pulsing 20mg every other day will shut you down just as much as dosing 10mg every day in a straight cycle.) So my solution is to dose (and lift) on 3 consecutive days, followed by 4 consecutive days "off." My whole theory is that the 4 consecutive off days is sufficient time for recovery. In fact, I think the HPTA "bounceback" I'm getting on my off days is what's responsible for my greatly improved libido.
As I said earlier, I will use my 6oxoExtreme to ensure that my HPTA is up and running. But I honestly think it may not be necessary.
And this whole thing started with my desire that PCS include some type of AI -- in which case I probably would choose it over Ergo's product. I've always been a fan of your company, and I've used most of your products.

[ImJ2x]

I absolutely intend to get bloodwork done, but not for a month or two. I think immediately post-cycle bloodwork is kinda useless. Even if I'm not very "shutdown," I'm guessing my liver and lipid values might be pretty jacked. So I want to delay the bloodwork a little while, to give my liver and cholesterol a chance to recover. Then I'll get some bloodwork to confirm this, so I can have some peace of mind regarding my overall health.
And as far as Dr. Houser is concerned, I'm not a big fan. I can never seem to get a straight answer from the guy regarding his PCT suggestions. Basically, he seems to be very negative -- trashing everything anyone says, without any concrete recommendations of his own. And his writing "style" is simply awful. It seems like he's just trying to make himself look smart by using the biggest words he can find in his thesaurus. But he doesn't know how to piece the words together into a proper sentence with coherent thought. Even if he does know what he's talking about, he is completely ineffective at explaining it. He's a lousy communicator. But he does seem to have an eerily cult-like herd of reverent followers. I'm just not one of them. Yet, lol.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by ImJ2x

And as far as Dr. Hauser is concerned, I'm not a big fan. I can never seem to get a straight answer from the guy regarding his PCT suggestions.

well, from what i've read I think its his belief that each individual and each cycle is unique, so he doesn't want to lay out a one size fits all PCT. Depending on your starting values, what sort of compound(s) you used, how long you used them for, and what your end of cycle blood test values are all greatly affect what PCT should consist of. if your LH was previously normal but post cycle its low how you would PCT to help correct that is different than if it stayed near the same. Same with all the other hormonal values, FSH, DHEA, etc.

[ImJ2x]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

well, from what i've read I think its his belief that each individual and each cycle is unique, so he doesn't want to lay out a one size fits all PCT. Depending on your starting values, what sort of compound(s) you used, how long you used them for, and what your end of cycle blood test values are all greatly affect what PCT should consist of. if your LH was previously normal but post cycle its low how you would PCT to help correct that is different than if it stayed near the same. Same with all the other hormonal values, FSH, DHEA, etc.

OK, so he's trying to drum up more business for himself. If you pay him $1000 for office visits/tests/scripts, he'll help you recover from a $100 cycle? Can't he do any better than that? Just some general recommendations would be nice. Otherwise, why does he even bother frequenting these boards?
And I'm sorry dinoiii -- I really don't think you're the anti-christ or anything. I just haven't gotten anything useful from you over the years. In other words, I read your posts, but rarely seem to benefit much from them. Maybe I'm just a simple guy, looking for simple answers, in a complicated world, lol.

[EasyEJL]

Well, he does post a lot of general info, those writeups that dmangiarelli mentioned contain the general scoop on what things do. But since he's a doctor he doesn't like to recommend anything specific for anyone specific without knowing their situation - ie blood test.

On the other hand, his articles + research about OTC compounds are very handy, and he's not afraid to recommend specific things in that area, and not just MAN products

[ImJ2x]

I haven't actually read those write-ups you guys are referring to. Maybe I should search them out. Knowledge is power.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by ImJ2x

OK, so he's trying to drum up more business for himself. If you pay him $1000 for office visits/tests/scripts, he'll help you recover from a $100 cycle? Can't he do any better than that?

Actually NOT ONCE have I sold services over the internet in this regard. The liability is too great.

Just some general recommendations would be nice. Otherwise, why does he even bother frequenting these boards?

You may be surprised but 16 years in the industry merely leaves this a hobby. I do "ok" for myself, don't you worry.

But, really, if you think I haven't given recommendations, you aren't as well-versed as you may think you are in my writing. I just have to be very wary in my position.

And I'm sorry dinoiii -- I really don't think you're the anti-christ or anything.

Phew, thank goodness. I was hoping I wasn't going to have to go for that defense.

I just haven't gotten anything useful from you over the years. In other words, I read your posts, but rarely seem to benefit much from them.

Fair enough, I don't chastize critique and I apologize you have seen well over 20,000 + pages of FREE information as unhelpful. You must have beat me to the research - especially the stuff that I have done in the lab; oh well, can't win em all no matter how hard you may try.

Maybe I'm just a simple guy, looking for simple answers, in a complicated world, lol.

Far too many people make the human body less complex, but it hardly translates into the beloved "real world," that justifies many the defense on bb message boards.

Nonetheless, I will continue doing what I'm doing though you may opt to look the other way.


D_