Tamoxifen Citrate Dosage and Timing

[Sbcaliking]

When is the best time of day to take tamoxifen citrate and how many mg's should I take at once?? Thank you.

 

[Steveoph]

Since the half-life is 5-7 days, it really doesn't matter when you take it. The tabs are usually 20mg, don't know how much you plan on dosing. If you're doing 40mg for the first week or two, I would just take both tabs at once to keep it simple.

 

[dahbuldee]

What about hepatoxicity? Wouldn't spreading the dosage out help this?

 

[Sbcaliking]

I've also read about tamox interrupting people's sleep, has anybody else heard this?

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

What if you get the liquid form instead of the pill form?

How would you dose this (measure) and when?

Would a generic form of the pills be just as effective as the name brands? They're the same thing, but I've noticed that the generic brands are much, much cheaper. Very cheap. Like, 30x10mg tablets for $10.50 cheap.

 

[Interlocutor]

What about hepatoxicity? Wouldn't spreading the dosage out help this?

hepatotoxicity with tamo seems to establish itself (in about 30% of users) mainly as reversible fatty liver over many years of use.

concerning this and the pretty long half-life, spreading the dose seems unlikely to have any impact on this.

if you are concerned, check http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16556438?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum and Nephrotoxicity and its prevention by taurine in ta...[Hum Exp Toxicol. 2007] - PubMed Result and consider using some taurine, or possibly the same antioxidants you'd take on cycle (NAC, ALA, MT, etc.)

see also: Tamoxifen in postmenopausal women a safety perspec...[Drugs Aging. 1996] - PubMed Result

A slight increase in thromboembolic events in postmenopausal women taking tamoxifen has been suggested in some adjuvant trials. Rarely, ocular toxicity and hepatotoxicity are found. The adverse effect of primary importance is the increased incidence of endometrial carcinoma.

so, the highest risk with tamo seems the blood clots (see other thread for discussion of this), with ocular events and hepatotoxicity about equal, but both being rare.

see also: Relevance of rat liver tumors to human hepatic and...[Semin Oncol. 1997] - PubMed Result

Concern for a risk of cancer in humans has been prompted by the appearance of hepatocellular carcinomas in tamoxifen-treated rats. However, there is no evidence of excess hepatocellular carcinoma among tamoxifen-treated women. Moreover, liver tumors are not induced in tamoxifen-treated mice or hamsters. An explanation for the species selectivity of this toxic effect may relate to the greater rate of formation of reactive intermediates in rats than either mice or humans. This results in persistent liver DNA adducts in tamoxifen-treated rat liver exceeding those produced in treated mice or in background levels measured in women taking tamoxifen. Another observation that reduces concern for human carcinogenesis is that bioactivation of tamoxifen may be inducible at dosages used in rodent cancer bioassays but not in those used clinically. Suggestions that endometrial cancer may be tamoxifen related are not supported by rodent data for endometrial cancer. Indeed, endometrial tissue lacks the necessary tamoxifen bioactivating capacity of liver consistent with the absence of DNA adducts in the endometrium of women taking tamoxifen. Finally, it seems doubtful that the colon is a target for human carcinogenesis of tamoxifen given the negative epidemiologic studies and high-dose rodent studies. In summary, there is at present no sound scientific basis for extrapolation of rat liver cancer findings to risks of liver, endometrial, and colon cancer in women receiving tamoxifen.

however, you would apparently in fact be at increased risk (for developing/worsening fatty liver) if you had a preexisting liver condition (e.g. steatosis). if that's the case you should probably neither use tamo, nor methylated orals at all.

T.I.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

hepatotoxicity with tamo seems to establish itself (in about 30% of users) mainly as reversible fatty liver over many years of use.

concerning this and the pretty long half-life, spreading the dose seems unlikely to have any impact on this.

if you are concerned, check http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16556438?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum and Nephrotoxicity and its prevention by taurine in ta...[Hum Exp Toxicol. 2007] - PubMed Result and consider using some taurine, or possibly the same antioxidants you'd take on cycle (NAC, ALA, MT, etc.)

see also: Tamoxifen in postmenopausal women a safety perspec...[Drugs Aging. 1996] - PubMed Result


so, the highest risk with tamo seems the blood clots (see other thread for discussion of this), with ocular events and hepatotoxicity about equal, but both being rare.

see also: Relevance of rat liver tumors to human hepatic and...[Semin Oncol. 1997] - PubMed Result



however, you would apparently in fact be at increased risk (for developing/worsening fatty liver) if you had a preexisting liver condition (e.g. steatosis). if that's the case you should probably neither use tamo, nor methylated orals at all.

T.I.

I didn't know any of this, so thanks for sharing.

 

[Sbcaliking]

Hmm, interesting. Tamox causing liver problems. Thanks for the info.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

Hmm, interesting. Tamox causing liver problems. Thanks for the info.

Only for extended periods of use, though. Many people here favor Tamox as their SERM of choice.

 

[Interlocutor]

Hmm, interesting. Tamox causing liver problems. Thanks for the info.

actually, quite the contrary. it seems to cause reversibe fatty liver in a lot (30%) of users (apparently especially those with preexisting liver problems). and that is after long-term exposure.

other disadvantageous hepatic events seem to be exceedingly rare as compared to the overall amount of users (>350.000, IIRC).

however, as the liver is also pre-stressed after the use of methylated orals (dose/duration/compound dependent), it may still be wise to provide some moderate protection as provided by the typical antioxidants used for liver support.

the reasoning provided by many not to use a SERM because they are so "horribly liver toxic" seems not to be validated by long-term in-vivo experience with tamo users. certain lab results with rats simply do not seem to be applicable to humans (and in the case of carcinogenic effect of tamo apparently not even to hamsters).

the blood clot issue which is more of a concern (but at <1% still pretty rare), is IMHO mainly a problem for those with increased risk factors (smoking, obese, family history of thrombosis etc.). certain blood thinning supplements (fish-oil) may well protect against the small remaining risk of those not so predisposed.

personally, my main concern would be the ocular issues, which may or may not be reversible, for which i don't see any preventative measures. despite the risk being rather low (apparently 0.6% - 0.9% for 3+ month usage) this, frankly, would always steer me into the direction of minimal dose use of SERMs.

generally, compared to the risk one takes with methylated oral AAS from by fly-by night operations without any quality control working in the grey area of semi-legality (as almost none of those "legal" compounds is DSHEA compliant), sourced from shady chinese labs, or the risk from homebrewn injectables from some mexican vet store, the use of (pharmacy grade!!!) SERMs seems pretty risk-free to me (and at least the few existing risks are known, and some measures can be taken against).

however if one is fat as a pig, smokes like a volcano, and drinks like an elephant he may wish to abstain from using a SERM. but then he may wish to abstain from using methylated orals in the first place and maybe focus on his lifestyle first.

T.I.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

What if you get the liquid form instead of the pill form?

How would you dose this (measure) and when?

Would a generic form of the pills be just as effective as the name brands? They're the same thing, but I've noticed that the generic brands are much, much cheaper. Very cheap. Like, 30x10mg tablets for $10.50 cheap.

Just in case anyone missed it.

Any information would be great.

 

[Cellardude]

Just in case anyone missed it.

Any information would be great.

tamoxifen citrate is bought from us for less than a buck. (By us I mean the pharmacy) The difference in generic and namebrand isnt much. Your basically paying for the name but some of our patients find a liking to generic/namebrands. They feel one is better off in terms of overall feeling for them. For any liquid in general, if it says 1000mg/10mL you would just divide. 1000/10 = 100.

100mg per mL and from there on find out a dosage

50mg of X solution = 1/2 of a mL in this example. For tomo citrate, the tablets are usually constituted at the proper dosage. Meaning 20mg is 20mg. However the liquid which might say 100mg per ML might not be 100mg. I believe you have to dose 30% more than the dose needed to actually get what you need. 130mg = 100mg per mL if you were to use the solution.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

tamoxifen citrate is bought from us for less than a buck. (By us I mean the pharmacy) The difference in generic and namebrand isnt much. Your basically paying for the name but some of our patients find a liking to generic/namebrands. They feel one is better off in terms of overall feeling for them. For any liquid in general, if it says 1000mg/10mL you would just divide. 1000/10 = 100.

100mg per mL and from there on find out a dosage

50mg of X solution = 1/2 of a mL in this example. For tomo citrate, the tablets are usually constituted at the proper dosage. Meaning 20mg is 20mg. However the liquid which might say 100mg per ML might not be 100mg. I believe you have to dose 30% more than the dose needed to actually get what you need. 130mg = 100mg per mL if you were to use the solution.

I'm most likely gonna stick with the generic Tamo tabs. Cheaper and just as effective. Serm's a serm.

 

[Brolic]

I WOULD KILL for a tab.. i dont want my rat to sallow nasty tasting stuff

 

[maynehood171]

I WOULD KILL for a tab.. i dont want my rat to sallow nasty tasting stuff

I agree...but also the chemical would last longer...

 

[dkkon1]

I heard that tamoxifen citrate must be dosed higher to get the same amount of active ingedient as is in Nolvadex. Was I told incorrectly???

 

[Brolic]

ask vinny

 

[Damitri]

What's the conversion of mg = ml?

I've taken it before, but always in pill form and this time I have it in liquid. I don't have any gyno at this time. I'm only trying to take a low dose to moderate throughout my cycle.

Pleased advise.

I'm just trying to take 5 mg everyday...how would I draw that back in a insulin syringe?

My bottle says: 20 mg X 60 ml vial.

 

[rexhavey]

What's the conversion of mg = ml?

I've taken it before, but always in pill form and this time I have it in liquid. I don't have any gyno at this time. I'm only trying to take a low dose to moderate throughout my cycle.

Pleased advise.

I'm just trying to take 5 mg everyday...how would I draw that back in a insulin syringe?

My bottle says: 20 mg X 60 ml vial.

So if 1 ml is 20 mg then only take .25 ml and that would be your 5mg dose bud!