well i got into my first cycle because of a friend of mine who started using Deca and Durabolin.......so i did a little research, set up my pct(3rd week of it right now) and started a 6 week cycle.....of deca......i thought my friend had done the same because he seemed to be getting stronger everyday....400+ bench press....so today i spoke to him and he is off the roids, he told me he really never did a cycle, just basically was on roids for an extended period of time, he went to the doctor and found out that he has liver damage and other problems....and he just looks sick......so i told him i would help him get out of this and i would set up a pct for him.......i was thinking
clomid 150/100/50/50
DHT recommended dose
6-oxo (he has 6-oxo extreme.....is there a difference?)tapered up 100/200/300/400 and then run an extra week on 400 after clomid is ended
and possibly low dose retain 2
well i got into my first cycle because of a friend of mine who started using Deca and Durabolin.......so i did a little research, set up my post cycle therapy(3rd week of it right now) and started a 6 week cycle.....of deca......i thought my friend had done the same because he seemed to be getting stronger everyday....400+ bench press....so today i spoke to him and he is off the roids, he told me he really never did a cycle, just basically was on roids for an extended period of time, he went to the doctor and found out that he has liver damage and other problems....and he just looks sick......so i told him i would help him get out of this and i would set up a post cycle therapy for him.......i was thinking
clomid 150/100/50/50
DHT recommended dose
6-oxo (he has 6-oxo extreme.....is there a difference?)tapered up 100/200/300/400 and then run an extra week on 400 after clomid is ended
and possibly low dose retain 2
how long has he been off cycle? it may be a little too late for pct and if his liver is that far gone i wouldnt suggest you give him anything. he needs to seek medical attention...you only get one liver and he could potentially f*ck it up even more with the stuff your planning on giving him
Yeah, I would not give him anything and have him just see his doctor and tell him everything. No point in screwing his body up more than he already has. It's idiots like this that ruin it for the rest of us.
cant blame him too much for being ignorant, a lot of people dont know about pct because the people they are getting their stuff from dont care what they do to their body, they just want their money. granted he should have looked into it before he started but most people dont really know the potential dangers of ps, they just know about the common side effects like hair loss and stunted growth that floats around the television.
I wouldn't say you can't blame them. Just because a person is ignorant of a result does not mean they are without blame.
If there is a button on the wall with no label and I press it and end up demolishing a building, am I to blame? Sure, the button was labeled or anything but shouldn't I have looked into what it did before I pressed it? Same goes for people putting something they know nothing about in their body. I have very little sympathy for those who screw up their bodies with a steroid because they did not research what they were doing first.
/rant
Back on track here, tell your buddy to go to the doc. That's really all that can be done for him. He'll probably need to be on HRT for a long while, if not the rest of his life.
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said: Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
I wouldn't say you can't blame them. Just because a person is ignorant of a result does not mean they are without blame.
If there is a button on the wall with no label and I press it and end up demolishing a building, am I to blame? Sure, the button was labeled or anything but shouldn't I have looked into what it did before I pressed it? Same goes for people putting something they know nothing about in their body. I have very little sympathy for those who screw up their bodies with a steroid because they did not research what they were doing first.
/rant
Back on track here, tell your buddy to go to the doc. That's really all that can be done for him. He'll probably need to be on HRT for a long while, if not the rest of his life.
i never said you couldnt blame him at all but their are some other things to take into consideration before you flame this guy. im sure there has been a time in your life when you did something you wished you wouldnt have because you were not informed of the potential consequences. the guy made a mistake because he was ignorant. but we could go back and forth about this all day, very opinionated topic so i would say lets forget it. sorry to the thread starter for flooding your thread
good post neoborn but he said he had some liver damage as it is. dont you think that a correct pct would do further damage? granted we have no idea what his liver values are and how far gone it is.
If his liver is damaged he needs to go to the hospital. When I had cholostasis and I was in the hospital they would not give me any drugs at for a long time because almost everything metabolizes through the liver and can cause more damage. Post cycle threapy is not a concern if he already has liver damage!.
cant blame him too much for being ignorant, a lot of people dont know about post cycle therapy because the people they are getting their stuff from dont care what they do to their body, they just want their money. granted he should have looked into it before he started but most people dont really know the potential dangers of ps, they just know about the common side effects like hair loss and stunted growth that floats around the television.
which i am fully aware of. when did i say they were responsible? all i said was that they dont care as long as they are still making money. that is twice in this thread people have put words in my mouth. i guess thats what i get for bringing this crap up so please people lets not flood the thread with highly debated bullsh*t. if you really want to discuss it that bad you can pm me and i will debate with you all day but lets keep it off the boards
cant blame him too much for being ignorant, a lot of people dont know about post cycle therapy because the people they are getting their stuff from dont care what they do to their body, they just want their money. granted he should have looked into it before he started but most people dont really know the potential dangers of ps, they just know about the common side effects like hair loss and stunted growth that floats around the television.
well he claims that his liver damage isnt that bad.......but im still going to suggest he just go see the doctor he already saw to talk about treatment of the problems he now has..........
1. Go see his Dr.
2. Start some high NAC(N-Acetyl-Cysteine)
3. Research next time and be thankful he doesn't have perm damage and is alive to tell about it.
ok and where in that post did i say it was the suppliers resposibility? no where...thank you, in fact if a pushed resposibility on anyone in that post it was directed to the kid who took the sh*t without researching
I would suggest that you tell your friend to stay far away from steroids for a very long time until he has fully researched what he is putting into his body.Granted we have all put things into our bodies in the past that we were not fully informed on but most of us knew enough to not hurt ourselves.Steroids can be a very unforgiving drug and if you abuse them you can kill yourself or live in pain for the rest of your life.Sometimes some things in life are not worth the risks they bring.So I would suggest you tell your friend to go to the doctor and get a full check up and blood work,make sure everything is working right and take this as a lesson learned.
I would suggest that you tell your friend to stay far away from steroids for a very long time until he has fully researched what he is putting into his body.Granted we have all put things into our bodies in the past that we were not fully informed on but most of us knew enough to not hurt ourselves.Steroids can be a very unforgiving drug and if you abuse them you can kill yourself or live in pain for the rest of your life.Sometimes some things in life are not worth the risks they bring.So I would suggest you tell your friend to go to the doctor and get a full check up and blood work,make sure everything is working right and take this as a lesson learned.
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