[Schism]

I'm just trying to find the general consensus on the weather a SERM should be used post cycle for Epi-type compounds. And gather some actual user feed back from those who have done either, or both methods.
Please fill me in on your recovery and the amount of your gains you were able to maintain sides ect.
All votes and responses will be appreciated and people WILL BE REPPED!!!


Note: I am neither pro or anti-SERM just looking for opinions.

[poopypants]

JMO but why NOT run a SERM???

even if its not "neccesary" to actually get back to norm youll most definately do so faster and be more capable of maintaing gains! Its no worse on your body then the cycle you just finished and you should be taking ancilleries for that crap anyways.

If I bust my ass and go through the trouble of running a cycle to get those precious pounds then I go 10X more all out with my post cycle therapy to maintain those gains... and possibly improve on them! Im the biggest advocate of overdoing it on post cycle therapy hitting every possible angle I can with as many possible supps as I can that arent redundant to make sure I dont skip a beat after a cycle and wont do it any other way, the one time I didnt use a serm I GOT GYNO... F that shiiit.

[Schism]

I also agree with you poopy. So thanks for your response. I repped you.
I see so many threads on here were people spend the whole time arguing over the us of SERMs versus OTC therapies, that I just wanted to poll every one's opinion on it. And see what the general feelings were on it and get some user feed back from people with experience using both for epi-type pct.
I chose to discuss epi because there seems to be the most argument on whether or not to implicate the use of SERMs in pct following a cycle of this compound.

[poopypants]

Originally Posted by Schism

I also agree with you poopy. So thanks for your response. I repped you.
I see so many threads on here were people spend the whole time arguing over the us of SERMs versus OTC therapies, that I just wanted to poll every one's opinion on it. And see what the general feelings were on it and get some user feed back from people with experience using both for epi-type post cycle therapy.
I chose to discuss epi because there seems to be the most argument on whether or not to implicate the use of SERMs in post cycle therapy following a cycle of this compound.

I think its most definately a requirement, just casue Epi has SERM like efects does not make it the same as an all out SERM. Who knows if its effects wane off slowly or if the dive there after and can cause a rebound (I do think its effects last like a week after stopping but who knows how fast it drops off after that). Its always better safe then sorry, I have been able to actually gain in my Epi PCT, sich is usually unheard of in any PCT. I attribute it to the comprehensive PCT ran INCLUDING TOREM A SERM! So kudos on polling this, hopefully others who are tring to skim by with less for their PCT will catch this and reverse their line of thinking.

[nosnmiveins]

IMHO a serm is a MUST to atleast have on hand when u are running ANY ph/ps....yes Havoc and clones might have less sides and possibly be less suppressive but still

...at least use cycle support, PCS, cort blocker and a test booster...maybe a serm wont be necessary...everyone is different

[poopypants]

IMHO a serm is a MUST to atleast have on hand when u are running ANY ph/ps....yes Havoc and clones might have less sides and possibly be less suppressive but still

...at least use cycle support, PCS, cort blocker and a test booster...maybe a serm wont be necessary...everyone is different

I agree that you should at least keep a SERM on hand. But you know MAYBE is all most can say about this.... also the ones who say " i didnt use one and i was fine" im sure are reffering to how they felt... did ANY of them get blood done to prove their OTC post cycle therapy was even truley effective at restoring basline values??? I have with a SERM and the test numbers are HIGH when Im done with my PCT. Id still like to see blood done by someone with an OTC PCT... I think EasyEJL is supposed to be running an OTC PCT and has gotten base beginning blood and is getting post PCT blood as well.

[SupFatHead]

Poop, people vastly overstate the benefits of SERM's restoring HPTA. Dr. H has explained this a few times I believe.

[poopypants]

If you can provide blood results for identical cycles with identical starting values showing that SERM and NO SERM are just as effective at restoring base line values I will abandon my beliefs and line of reasoning. All I know is what I have personally experienced with a SERM and without. Ive also got blood with a SERM (torem) use only after a 6 week DBOL and Epi cycle (just by the nature of DBOL i should have been severely suppressed) and ended with +600 total test levels (800 capping normal top test range and 300 being low in normal range). Not to mention the most important reson for runing a SERM wich is absolute estrogen blocking at the receptor itself, allowing you to have the health benifits of free flowing estrogen without the negative sides, opposed to destroing estrogen with typical Suicide inhibitors used that can make est levels drop below desireable levels.

[Ziquor]

I'm with you 100% Poopy. I haven't much on the personal experience/use side but I did study much of this in college. Non-steroidal SERM's help your body recover from shutdown & get your natty test working better again whereas AI's (like 6-oxo, ATD, formestane) can shut down the bodies natural test production on their own. AI's also have bad effects on cholesterol, BP (just like gear as they are considered steroidal). Sorry if that's a bit off topic, AI's do have many great uses. I'm just getting at, one of the worst sides of gear is the increase of cholesterol lipids. I've been following some studies by the fda & Massachusetts Institute of Tech. (MIT) - they're considering approving Nolva as a cholosterol reducing med. It doesn't work the same way statins do however it's shown in numerous tests now to dramatically decrease LDL (bad) cholestrol & increase HDL (good) cholesterol, even at low doses after as little as 2 weeks. These are just a couple benefits of SERM's. I believe any user should always keep them on hand.

[Schism]

I too believe that the benefits of using SERMs in bb applications has greatly been understated due to the lack of scientific studies on the matter (for obvious reasons). But I would love to see some clinical trial results with SERMs used as opposed to otc methods for recovery in controlled cases of steroid administration.
I know a lot of people (especially professional athletes) would be greatly interested in the results.
Repps for all!! WTF Hook a brother up!!!

[Schism]

Originally Posted by poopypants

I think its most definately a requirement, just casue Epi has SERM like efects does not make it the same as an all out SERM. Who knows if its effects wane off slowly or if the dive there after and can cause a rebound (I do think its effects last like a week after stopping but who knows how fast it drops off after that). Its always better safe then sorry, I have been able to actually gain in my Epi post cycle therapy, sich is usually unheard of in any PCT. I attribute it to the comprehensive PCT ran INCLUDING TOREM A SERM! So kudos on polling this, hopefully others who are tring to skim by with less for their PCT will catch this and reverse their line of thinking.

Tried to repp you again poopy. Wouldn't let me yet..

[Ziquor]

Right back at ya Schism.

[Cub]

I ran Epistane for four weeks at 20/30/40/40 and DID NOT use a SERM during post cycle therapy, in fact, I used NOTHING for post cycle therapy! I feel that SERMs are pushed by designer steroid/pro-hormone companies to make their products seem more hardcore than they really are. The only side effects I noticed (as mentioned in another post somewhere) was that my libido was down for a couple of weeks and I had trouble barring up on a few occassions during those two weeks In saying this, I am planning/preparing a Superdrol cycle at the moment which will begin on the 18th of February and run for three weeks, which WILL contain PCT with a SERM. Only because of the consistent reviews claiming the harshness of the compound and possibility for *****ies. I will log it in detail so stay tuned. Talk about being hypocritical

[Schism]

Thanks cub. That's an interesting point of view. Though pretty fcuking conflicting! lol.. Did you loose alot of your gains coming off the epi without a pct?