[Schism]

Originally Posted by arizonanewbie

Sorry Schis and others, I know I've been like a 4 year old with this, its just that I'm brand new to PHs and I'm trying to be absolutely sure about my options. I appreciate the info you've given and I won't bother you again about it. I'll sit quietly and listen.

Aw, your good dawg, it's just you got 2 options and you know what they are. So the next step is to decide what will be best for you. People run ph's all the time with otc pct or no pct at all!! Is that smart, hell no! Does that stop anyone from doing it, not really. I think the best thing for you to do would either be a.( do some more research and come to an educated decision on your own, or b.( try something that doesn't require a pct.
Remember if you just started lifting a few years ago you should be able to gain lbs easily by tweaking your diet, routine ext. I myself gained over a lean 30lbs in three years ALL NATURALY by doing what I just stated. So it's very much a reality but it's not going to happen on accident. Your going to have to put so serious blood and sweat into it. Not to mention constantly force feeding yourself clean foods. So there's alot that goes into this game, no "magic" pill is going to get you to wherever it is you want to be. And just a heads up, if you take a ph's, steroid whatever and your training and diet is sh!t, the minimal gains you'll see will all be gone after you stop use anyway. So just something to think about...good luck bro.

[arizonanewbie]

Thanks Schiz! I just got my Havoc in the mail but I'm gonna hold off on it until I feel like I've hit a real plateau and I need it. Until then I'll B.S.T it with good diet and commitment. Maybe I'll try the MassFX stack mentioned earlier too.

Are you gonna get to spend the summer in the W. Mountains or do you have to come back and sweat the heat?

[Schism]

Originally Posted by arizonanewbie

Thanks Schiz! I just got my Havoc in the mail but I'm gonna hold off on it until I feel like I've hit a real plateau and I need it. Until then I'll B.S.T it with good diet and commitment. Maybe I'll try the MassFX stack mentioned earlier too.

Are you gonna get to spend the summer in the W. Mountains or do you have to come back and sweat the heat?

That sound's like a solid decision for you, for now at least. Once you get some more experience I think you'll have less problems, and better results with it anyways. I make solid gains off the basics: protein, creatine, nos, fish oil, multi-vit, buckets of water and pounds of food.

As for this summer I don't know where the hell I'll be. I actually just got out of the electricians UNION so I might be going down to pheonix this summer to go through this hvac program, more money less danger! What about you, what do you do down there, (besides workout obviously)?

[arizonanewbie]

PMed you.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm taking creatine and a multi and I was taking DHEA and Trib for a while. I've made pretty good gains so far and as I clean up my diet even more, I know they'll get better.

You'll have to pardon my ignorance, but what is the purpose of fish oil?

[arizonanewbie]

I'm sorry, I just found a thread on it. No need to waste your time explaining it - I should have checked before asking you to write me a lesson. I'm still new to this whole internet forum bit.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by arizonanewbie

I'm sorry, I just found a thread on it. No need to waste your time explaining it - I should have checked before asking you to write me a lesson. I'm still new to this whole internet forum bit.

Haha I don't mind bro!! But since you already read up on it you know it's a great addition to your supp regiment. It has so many benefits from heart heath to fat loss and joint support that it's a must IMO. I usually just get mine at like Walgreen's when there having a BOGO sale. The stuffs so cheap for what it does that it's well worth the 4-5bucks anyways. Also another cheap supp that really works is Green Tea extract. It's become a staple for me in fact the only supps I take on a regular basis are fish oils, green tea, a strong multi-vit and protein. The other stuff has a minimal impact IMO.

[Indiana Jones]

I hear a lot of people say make sure you have a SERM on hand, but how do you know if you need it or not ? Does the Gyno have to start ?

[EasyEJL]

if you are taking something mild like halo or maybe epi, and didn't plan to use the serm in pct then having it there in case gyno begins is the main reason

[ValorOfOne]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

if you are taking something mild like halo or maybe epi, and didn't plan to use the serm in pct then having it there in case gyno begins is the main reason

I agree.

(Non related to qoute.)


-----------

In my opinion.. Most PS/PH cycles can be ran safely without the use of a Serm. This takes proper planning and knowledge. Though this does not mean you can neglect the use of a serm if the need does arise. Furthermore, I believe it goes without saying that a Serm is an intregal part in any PCT. Though it isn't nessessarily needed in all situations. It is used to speed recovery rather then guarentee recovery.

My 0.02.

Disagree, agree. Hate me, regardless. Its nothing but my opinion.

[bound]

Originally Posted by ValorOfOne

In my opinion.. Most PS/PH cycles can be ran safely without the use of a Serm. This takes proper planning and knowledge. Though this does not mean you can neglect the use of a serm if the need does arise. Furthermore, I believe it goes without saying that a Serm is an intregal part in any PCT. Though it isn't nessessarily needed in all situations. It is used to speed recovery rather then guarentee recovery.

My 0.02.

Disagree, agree. Hate me, regardless. Its nothing but my opinion.

I hate you.




Kidding. I'm curious what your PCT would look like without a SERM, then?

[WOLFNASTY]

i did a three week cycle of m1T with 6oxo as my PCT. less then a month later my bloodwork indicated that not only were my creatinine levels through the roof but that my thyroid was shot.
USE A SERM!!! YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT'S GONNA LOSE IF YOU DON'T!!!

[WOLFNASTY]

i did a three week cycle of m1T with 6oxo as my PCT. less then a month later my bloodwork indicated that not only were my creatinine levels through the roof but that my thyroid was shot.
USE A SERM!!! YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT'S GONNA LOSE IF YOU DON'T!!!

[Isma3286]

Originally Posted by poopypants

I think its most definately a requirement, just casue Epi has SERM like efects does not make it the same as an all out SERM. Who knows if its effects wane off slowly or if the dive there after and can cause a rebound (I do think its effects last like a week after stopping but who knows how fast it drops off after that). Its always better safe then sorry, I have been able to actually gain in my Epi PCT, sich is usually unheard of in any PCT. I attribute it to the comprehensive PCT ran INCLUDING TOREM A SERM! So kudos on polling this, hopefully others who are tring to skim by with less for their PCT will catch this and reverse their line of thinking.

just wondering? how did you cycle the epi? and what did you PCT look like? also, what serm did you use? Nolva? and how much of it?

[Kenneth3x]

To SERM ..... not to SERM..... damn there are so many confusing posts for newbies! What are the best options besides Liquid Nolva Tamoxifen Citrate and clomid. Also what are the legal options and what is the best way not to get scammed?

[TonySmiles]

Originally Posted by Kenneth3x

To SERM ..... not to SERM..... damn there are so many confusing posts for newbies! What are the best options besides Liquid Nolva Tamoxifen Citrate and clomid. Also what are the legal options and what is the best way not to get scammed?

I am right there with ya man. I am a NOOB to this as well, to the ph/steroid scene that is. I am planning a H-drol cycle, my first of this nature ever and have a decent pre/cycle/PCT planned (you can check my "H-drol advice please" post, lol) but I am still a bit confused on the SERM bit. Legal options? Scams? And what not..... hmmm, my research shall continue....

[TonySmiles]

And imagine the poor bastards that just pop this stuff without any clue as to what it is...wow. I am sooo glad I have researched all of this before jumping the gun, and I am still getting it all together.