[Behemoth1]

Originally Posted by Cub

Why wasn't it one of your smarter decisions? You made gains with minimal sides. Get a blood test and see that everything is in order.

true but i just got lucky. should have had a serm but all is well. I'm definately gonna get a blood test done before i do another cycle.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by Behemoth1

true but i just got lucky. should have had a serm but all is well. I'm definately gonna get a blood test done before i do another cycle.

Isn't that the whole reason for pulsing though. Not to have to eat the serms ? What if any sides did you experience?

[slow-mun]

Originally Posted by Ziquor

Hey Poopy. When I mentioned the above it was aimed sorta toward a specific someone, but not you in any way whatsoever. You seem to really know what your talkin about & have the experience to back it as well. But I believe it's somewhat true about certain people caring about the $$$ more so than what happens to peoples health. Even if not reps there are many people here on AM that do work for, and in some cases have ownership in, supplement companys.

I have a strong WTF for you and Schism. Much like your assumptions about Epistane and DMT, you two are about just as clueless in regards to supplement companies and their representatives. FWIW, most reps get picked up by companies, b/c of their supplement knowledge and reputation. We usually only get a few free supplements a month, if that. Our opinions also almost never reflect those of our comnpanies, so quit trying to blame a supplement company for their reps pwning you two. If you really have such a distrust for the supplement industry and like to create controversial threads with little merit, then there are better forums for you two to frequent. I can't believe that you two were too timid to bring this into the other thread. BTW, it helps to know what you're talking about when entering an arguement. Just a little tip for you two.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by slow-mun

I have a strong WTF for you and Schism. Much like your assumptions about Epistane and DMT, you two are about just as clueless in regards to supplement companies and their representatives. FWIW, most reps get picked up by companies, b/c of their supplement knowledge and reputation. We usually only get a few free supplements a month, if that. Our opinions also almost never reflect those of our comnpanies, so quit trying to blame a supplement company for their reps pwning you two. If you really have such a distrust for the supplement industry and like to create controversial threads with little merit, then there are better forums for you two to frequent. I can't believe that you two were too timid to bring this into the other thread. BTW, it helps to know what you're talking about when entering an arguement. Just a little tip for you two.

To timid? Wow that's pretty tough E-talk, slow. It seems like you have a vendetta of some sort for me and I'm not sure exactly why. In my last thread I was the bigger man and apologize to you for our quarrels. At this point it seems that all your doing bro is following me around like some sort of gay stalker and trying to start fights. If you don't like me than feel free to keep your distance. I find your confrontational posts offensive and of an ill nature so respectfully find someone else to take your anger problems out on. Thanx...........

[slow-mun]

Originally Posted by Schism

To timid? Wow that's pretty tough E-talk, slow. It seems like you have a vendetta of some sort for me and I'm not sure exactly why. In my last thread I was the bigger man and apologize to you for our quarrels. At this point it seems that all your doing bro is following me around like some sort of gay stalker and trying to start fights. If you don't like me than feel free to keep your distance. I find your confrontational posts offensive and of an ill nature so respectfully find someone else to take your anger problems out on. Thanx...........

Aren't you the guy that threatened to beat me up if we ever met? I just don't like you or your partner's posts. You two should definitely be reading more and posting less. Case closed.........

[Schism]

Originally Posted by slow-mun

Aren't you the guy that threatened to beat me up if we ever met? I just don't like you or your partner's posts. You two should definitely be reading more and posting less. Case closed.........

I didn't threaten to beat you up! I merely asked if you would like to insult me in person? Which I even then apologized for later! Bottom line I don't want to waste my time fighting with someone online. I find no satisfaction in this so I guess I'll give you the last word in hopes that you will go away. So go ahead, your turn bad@ss................................

[ALUISLUGO]

Originally Posted by Schism

I didn't threaten to beat you up! I merely asked if you would like to insult me in person? Which I even then apologized for later! Bottom line I don't want to waste my time fighting with someone online. I find no satisfaction in this so I guess I'll give you the last word in hopes that you will go away. So go ahead, your turn bad@ss................................

...lol!

[Schism]

Haha, no sh!t that's hilarious brother!

[Behemoth1]

Originally Posted by Schism

Isn't that the whole reason for pulsing though. Not to have to eat the serms ? What if any sides did you experience?

Only side effect I noticed is that once i got up to 40mg of epistane Insomnia hit me pretty bad. 2am to 4am is usually how long i was awake till. It kinda sucked, other than that it was a successful cycle.

[Eagleman003]

NO SERM!!!!!!!!!!! I did Epistane at 30/30/40/40/50 gained around 6 lbs and took the OTC PCT Method.

Post Cycle Support by AI - 5/4/4/3 (caps)
6-oxo by Ergopharm - 600/600/400/200 (mg)
Tribulus - 1-2 grams a day
Retain2 - 3 caps a day for 30 days

Strength went up in PCT and I lost almost NO size what-so-ever. Libido is better then before, nuts are big, no gyno (knock on wood). I have done SERM and OTC PCT before and I prefer OTC PCT, and I urge you to take this route, but if you can have a SERM on hand, although you wont need it.

The ONLY KEY to not losing Size in your PCT is to keep the overload you had on your muscles constant during your PCT. A decrease in overload will mean a decrease in size. Dont decrease your weights or intensity if you feel you can handle it without overtraining. Also you need to eat a lot and gain some fat in your PCT in order to maintain your gains.

flames please?

[Behemoth1]

definately would not advise people goin up to 50 on epistane. sucks that you only gained 6pounds at that too lol. people gain more than that on 30mg pulses probably not your fault though

[EasyEJL]

as a quick comment on the rep thing, I was selected as a rep by AN because I was already doing the sort of things here that they wanted a rep for. Being honest, trying to help out, etc. Learn Teach Lead like it says on the anabolic minds logo I was told not to change what I do as well. So I do suggest where it fits an AN product, but have no problems suggesting someone elses product too, even directly competitive ones if they are effective.

As far as SERM vs no SERM goes, the problem is that it isn't cut and dried. For one thing, there is the huge difference in all the compounds. Halodrol-50 vs M1T is a huuuuuuge difference. Secondly, so much is about personal chemistry. If you talk to any of the doctors who treat these sorts of things, you'd be doing blood tests before cycle, right at end, and then every week during PCT. And you'd make adjustments to what you were doing based on progress.

A person who starts with low testosterone, high LH, normal SHBG and high estrogen to begin with will have different PCT needs after the exact same cycle as someone with high test, low LH, low SHBG and low estrogen.....

[Schism]

Your words are wise and true, as usual Easy. Thanks.
I wish the issue was cut and dry, it would be allot easier to plan out a decent pct. I suppose the smartest thing to do is get everything together (if you can afford it) and have it on hand, whether or not you end up using everything. Do you agree with this thinking?

[EasyEJL]

thats basically the smartest move. Have nolva, torem, cabergoline (if something likely to have prolactin issues) handy, take p-5-p thru the cycle. plan on the pct being a test booster, possibly an AI after the first week, plus staple type things like creatine, beta alanine, etc. If you have significant shrinkage, loss of libido, etc you may choose to use the SERMs in pct, but not feel like you have to. a low dose SERM isn't a bad idea either. 10mg of nolva a day is a pretty inexpensive insurance policy against gyno.

I guess that as well is important as a distinction, there is gyno prevention and HTPA restoration, and both have different needs + supps that help more. Most of the SERMs don't do a ton on their own on full HTPA restoration, but they may raise LH enough that testicular shrinkage reverses