First time serming

Nilla

Nilla

New member
Awards
0
I just ordered some Torem 60mg/ml 60 ml and want to now how i should run it?

My cycle was 10weeks Bold 1000mg and 6weeks Halo 75mg.

I also want to know if i should run a cort blocker like LX2.0 and a natty t-booster.

i was wanting to try topical form as well and was wondering about adding it or not.

Thanks-B-
 
neoborn

neoborn

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Typical dosages are:

120/90/60/30


======================================================
Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.


1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums
====================================================
Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Last edited:
Eric Potratz

Eric Potratz

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
Yep good info, and keep in mind its the Dermacrine Sustain that is the natural T booster. It would have a synergistic effect with the Tormifene too for boosting T, and perhaps prevent any drop in libido caused by the Tormifene if you are prone to this.

-Pp
 

QUICKRYDE

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
WHOA -----> THANKS FOR THIS THREAD :) :) :) :)

I was just searching for some Nolvadex dosage instruction and here it is. I just purchase two bottles of liquid Tamoxifen Citrate 20mg/ ml 60ml today. I never did the liquid before and I'm confused on how to take this stuff. I need some experts to jump in and break it down to me. The pills would have been much easier to take but I gave my pills away this past June to a friend and the site is no longer in business.

Also, I read the Nolva dosage and I have a question...do you take the entire "40" in one dosage or split it through out the day? Do you take it with food, mix it with a shake or just take it on an empty gut? I have been reading about using serum but no one really broke it down. This may be helpful to the other guys on the site. :)


Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

Oh, just a side note -----> I'm doing a cycle 12/15/07 and I'm doing 4 weeks of PP and yes, I have all the stuff needed and the Nolva is coming by mail.
 
Nilla

Nilla

New member
Awards
0
Great info!

Alright this is what im running;

LX2.0
ActivateX
Torem
Liver care~SAMe/Thistle
Supporting supp's

Hows this look?
 
bpmartyr

bpmartyr

Snuggle Club™ mascot
Awards
1
  • Established
SERM's have a long half-life and do not require dosing more than once per day.
 
NasD

NasD

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
yo Neo, do you have experience with the Torem dosages that you suggested (not the typical)? The reason that I ask is that I am used to seeing the typical 120/90/60/30 with each representing a full week. I like your recommendation b/c it lets you decrease dosages sooner.
 
Nilla

Nilla

New member
Awards
0
Dermacrine Sustain "Topical" right

How would you run it?
Also,should you add any other Test booster, Trib/Activate-X ?
 
Eric Potratz

Eric Potratz

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
Dermacrine Sustain "Topical" right

How would you run it?
Also,should you add any other Test booster, Trib/Activate-X ?
Yes, the topical. You apply 4-5 pumps after a shower everyday. Sustain stacks well with other herbal T boosters.

-Pp
 
T-Bone

T-Bone

Banned
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Typical dosages are:

120/90/60/30


Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.


1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Torem Dosing:
Wk1: 120,90,90,60,60,60,60,
Wk2: 40,40,40,40,30,30,30
Wk3: 20,20,20,20,10,10,10
Wk4: Needed? 10,10,10,10,10,10,10

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Much Love,

Neoborn

Post Cycle Support and Sustain are both SERMS, so I don't know what you mean by "Non-Serm"...?
 
Nilla

Nilla

New member
Awards
0
I would like to hear more about Sustain and how to adapt it to what i got going.
Anyone wanna chime in??
 
Eric Potratz

Eric Potratz

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
I would like to hear more about Sustain and how to adapt it to what i got going.
Anyone wanna chime in??
I would start the Sustian the same time as the Toremifene... which could be layered right over the other supplements you are taking.

5 pumps ED of Sustain would make a bottle last about 28 days.

-Pp
 
neoborn

neoborn

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
yo Neo, do you have experience with the Torem dosages that you suggested (not the typical)? The reason that I ask is that I am used to seeing the typical 120/90/60/30 with each representing a full week. I like your recommendation b/c it lets you decrease dosages sooner.
I have updated my post. I believe Interlocutor to be closer to the truth and sense in this matter.

I'm not sure how I came up with those numbers but he has done his homework

TheSinner and other long term knowledgeable members will most likely be able to enlighten you more on this subject.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
voodoopump

voodoopump

New member
Awards
0
What time is best to take torem...Morning or before bed. Thanks in advance.
 
Ubiquitous

Ubiquitous

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm not even sure that would matter with torem. It's active life is like 3 weeks, of course correct me if I'm wrong :think:
Ok, you're wrong. :) You probably read that after consistent dosing you will reach steady concentrations after a few weeks.

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=5003

Pharmacokinetics: The plasma concentration time profile of toremifene declines biexponentially after absorption with a mean distribution half-life of about 4 hours and an elimination half-life of about 5 days. Elimination half-lives of major metabolites, N-demethyltoremifene and (deaminohydroxy) toremifene were 6 and 4 days, respectively. Mean total clearance of toremifene was approximately 5L/h.
Absorption and Distribution: Toremifene is well absorbed after oral administration and absorption is not influenced by food. Peak plasma concentrations are obtained within 3 hours. Toremifene displays linear pharmacokinetics after single oral doses of 10 to 680 mg. After multiple dosing, dose proportionality was observed for doses of 10 to 400 mg. Steady-state concentrations were reached in about 4-6 weeks. Toremifene has an apparent volume of distribution of 580 L and binds extensively (>99.5%) to serum proteins, mainly to albumin.
Metabolism and Excretion: Toremifene is extensively metabolized, principally by CYP3A4 to N-demethyltoremifene, which is also antiestrogenic but with weak in vivo antitumor potency. Serum concentrations of N-demethyltoremifene are 2 to 4 times higher than toremifene at steady state. Toremifene is eliminated as metabolites predominantly in the feces, with about 10% excreted in the urine during a 1-week period. Elimination of toremifene is slow, in part because of enterohepatic circulation.
 
celc5

celc5

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Ok, you're wrong. :) You probably read that after consistent dosing you will reach steady concentrations after a few weeks.
right on bro... I just found a source that says 7 hour 1/2 life and 7 day active life for Toremefine. In which case, I would guess consistent dosing time may be of some concern in the first week.

It was Raloxefine that had the 27 hour 1/2 life, in which the dosing time was inconsequential. I guess I had my numbers all confused :fool2:
 
Top