[bound]

There's been the random mention in several threads on Resveratrol of estrogenic effects. I've yet to see any of it explained, though many people seem interested or concerned. I thought the topic should have its own thread. So lets have at it.

[EasyEJL]

From what I recall one of the earliest studies on resveratrol in rats or mice showed estrogenic effects, but partially due the dosing protocol and how it was administrated it was largely discredited. mind you this is just vague memories talking

[bound]

I'm actually wondering if it started as someone/people misconstruing the talk of resveratrol's binding affinity for estrogen receptors as being a negative. But then Dinoiii seems to have some further info, or at least clues that there's more going on. Hopefully we'll get some folks who have read AND understood the studies.

[EasyEJL]

there definitely was one of the earliest studies that showed estrogenic effects. i'm working out of corporate office + meetings all day today, but if theres not more data here tonite i'll try and find it after my flight to seattle

[bound]

This is a PM that Primordial Perf just sent me:

The estrogenic potency of resveratrol is a very complex topic. I’ve been through hundreds of resveratrol studies yet have not found a simple way to explain its effects which would be relevant to the BB community. It all dependant on the cell type, cell health, other growth factors, transcriptional activity, ligands, res concentration, delivery method, ect. The bottom line is that Resveratrol is not going to cause the same side effects as high E2 no matter how much you take. It has estrogenic effects in some tissues, but the effects are vastly different because of the different co-factor activation and transcriptional activity of resveratrol. It plays very nicely and it does good things for the body.

But I’ll tell you why you’ve been seeing so many questionable threads …

One of our competitors just found out that we are advertising on this board, so he came here to start ‘negative’ threads about resveratrol. It seems silly, but this guy will go to any length to stir up trouble for us. I chose not to engage in his resveratrol threads since it always turns into a mudslinging fight that wastes everyone’s time. (that’s his only purpose anyway) If you notice, the ONLY negative study of resveratrol being a “super-estrogen” is from a 1997 study which was severely flawed (by use of ethanol as a drug carrier) and refuted by every subsequent study done since then.

Hopefully this clears things up. You can post this up if you want.


-Eric[/quote]

[EasyEJL]

yeah, that was the one I recalled, the ethanol carrier which none of the later studies showed the similar results

[bound]

Easy, were you the one who was taking rediculous amounts of Trans-res for a while, like seven grams a day or some such?

[EasyEJL]

4 g of 50% yes

[bound]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

4 g of 50% yes

How was it? Do you have a report of it anywhere? It'd really help me a lot to hear about it's effects outside of PCT.

I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to run a heavy dose of res for a while by itself, with bloodwork. This way I'll have a better idea of what doses do what, or at least know what the effects of the res are, versus other things. Kind of running a PCT in pieces, so I've got a clearer image of what's going on when it's all together and needs to work.

[UNCfan1]

Originally Posted by bound

There's been the random mention in several threads on Resveratrol of estrogenic effects. I've yet to see any of it explained, though many people seem interested or concerned. I thought the topic should have its own thread. So lets have at it.

Interesting indeed. Dinoiii made mention of this I think? I see Eric pmed u about it as well.

I haven't seen any neg studies on it of course they are far and few but I did see one with mice involved. I wish it were a human trial but what can u do? Anyway I would like to hear from others too.

But let me pose this question, do u take flaxseed oil? Its estrogenic too, but I think much like revs it doesn't impact the E2, is that right, someone can correct that if I am wrong.

But no all estrogen is bad. Still interested in other posters thoughts.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by bound

How was it? Do you have a report of it anywhere? It'd really help me a lot to hear about it's effects outside of post cycle therapy.

I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to run a heavy dose of res for a while by itself, with bloodwork. This way I'll have a better idea of what doses do what, or at least know what the effects of the res are, versus other things. Kind of running a PCT in pieces, so I've got a clearer image of what's going on when it's all together and needs to work.

I don't really have a good separate log as i'm an idiot and I put too many supplements together at once. So its buried in other logs. But I can say I noticed the difference SIGNIFICANTLY from when I was at 1g 50%/day to 2g/day to 4g/day. at 4g/day I sexually felt like I was 17 again

[dinoiii]

Understand the differences of ER-alpha and ER-beta.

ER-alpha: receives proliferation signals from E2

ER-beta: facilitates the return of ER-alpha to the nucleus and restores responsiveness to E2


* While trans-resveratrol apparently harbors an inhibitory action on ER-alpha, the same can NOT be said for ER-beta. This is NOT going to contribute to short-term effects.

This is one of the rationales as to why tamoxifen (though I still believe its negatives outnumber this as a positive) actually downregulates the ER-beta en route to treatment of breast cancer (cellular proliferation) as well as gyno (cell proliferation). This also offers up rationale as to why the so-called "delayed-gyno" scares existed some time back. ER-beta was likely not taken care of. If ER-beta is taken care of as well (almost an indiscriminate antagonism), you will actually prolong the refractory response to E2 in mammary tissue.

Right now, resveratrol research is in its infancy, BUT we do know it does NOT seem to antagonize the ER-beta (this is a problem).


If this doesn't make sense, feel free to continue the discussion below.


D_

[jasonschaffin]

Wow I can usually understand most this stuff but that blew right by me.
Does this basically mean that if you hit ER-alpha but not ER-beta there could be an E2 "rebound" type of effect when discontinued?

[bound]

+1. Dinoiii, you lost me on that one, too.