[stxnas]

I believe you more or less answered my question with the post above (and yes I meant OTC products, if possible). I wasn't aware that there would be a difference in protocol for useage in pct vs an NHA stack for test boosting.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by stxnas

I believe you more or less answered my question with the post above (and yes I meant OTC products, if possible). I wasn't aware that there would be a difference in protocol for useage in post cycle therapy vs an NHA stack for test boosting.

ALL supplementation schemes are case-dependent as are any/all PCT recommendations. A one-size-fits-all more often than not DOES NOT EXIST!!!

We could even get into detail about different types of PCT and long-acting ester effects and the like, but for many a grandiose science presentation would likely make their head spin.


D_

[stxnas]

Hmm, never thought about it like that...I was more along the lines of looking at both instances as just trying to boost natty test production

[bound]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

As discussed in the TD Form thread which had a lot of talk about TD Res, there are many fundamental flaws not being considered for whatever reason with this product.

As for extension of half-life with Icariin and/or piperine, I would love to see that data. Understand that bioperine/piperine actually DECREASES bioavailability of certain substances and I am unsure that the patent-holder here has EVER released data with concurrent resveratrol administration. If so, I would ask to see that data as well.

Trans-res to me as suggested for reasons in the TD form thread is a premature concept that holds little scientific weight the way that it is being purported and I will challenge anyone suggesting the contrary to show a lick of evidence to what is being suggested here. And, I mean credible 3rd party stuff...not some random in-house suggestion from data we'll likely never see.


D_

This is one of the things that I'm still waiting for, too. I've read a few logs by folks whose PCT was based solely on RES products, but as usual with logs, no bloodwork. The first thing that I'm going to do with my new health insurance is get some bloodwork then use res for a while, and see what the numbers say.
There does seem to be an awful lot of hope for it, but like you said, there just aren't any numbers.
Thanks for the replies, Dinoiii, hadn't seen you around much.

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by bound

This is one of the things that I'm still waiting for, too. I've read a few logs by folks whose post cycle therapy was based solely on RES products, but as usual with logs, no bloodwork. The first thing that I'm going to do with my new health insurance is get some bloodwork then use res for a while, and see what the numbers say.
There does seem to be an awful lot of hope for it, but like you said, there just aren't any numbers.
Thanks for the replies, Dinoiii, hadn't seen you around much.

My PCT for the 1-t cycle i'm on right now will be just the Dermacrine Sustain. It does have chrysin in it as well as a couple other ingredients I can't recall. I do have test, estradiol, fsh, and lh blood levels before cycle, and will take again after PCT

[bound]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

My post cycle therapy for the 1-t cycle i'm on right now will be just the Dermacrine Sustain. It does have chrysin in it as well as a couple other ingredients I can't recall. I do have test, estradiol, fsh, and lh blood levels before cycle, and will take again after post cycle therapy

You got a log going, or will you just post the results?

edit: Nevermind, turns out there was a nice handy link in your sig that oddly enough, took me right to the log in question....

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by bound

You got a log going, or will you just post the results?

edit: Nevermind, turns out there was a nice handy link in your sig that oddly enough, took me right to the log in question....

the blood test results are sort of in the middle of the log, but the sample was taken before the start. I was clean of anything testosterone affecting for 2 weeks prior. I knew my test was that low, didn't realize estrogen was so high :P

[Devon]

Sorry to chime in out of nowhere, but I thought this might be as good a place as any. I've been lurking here and sifting through threads for a while, since I have been suffering from symptoms of hypogonadism for months and am currently using Dermacrine Sustain to help get my T levels back into a comfort zone, with some mild, inconsistent improvements. It turns out, though, that my Estradiol (E2) is way high as well (as is DHT), so I am looking into AI possibilities to drive down its levels.

I understand that Estradiol is metabolized by the liver, and that cessation of E2 production does not mean immediate effects, since there remains E2 in the bloodstream. But the answer I can't seem to find anywhere is how long it takes for the liver to process or 'turn over' existing E2 in the system...? Does anybody have any clue about whether we're talkig days or weeks or months? I just really want to be able to evaluate by what point a treatment should be working or not.

Any info appreciated!

[Gutterpump]

Originally Posted by bound

Easy, were you the one who was taking rediculous amounts of Trans-res for a while, like seven grams a day or some such?

Im taking around 7 grams of 50% trans-resveratrol now, have been for a while. Im triple dosing AIs PCS as an everyday regime, not for post cycle therapy, as well as doing about 140mg ed of transdermal formestane. My test is naturally on the lower end though, Ill probably be throwing more into the mix (like dermacrine..which is transdermal pregnenalone and dhea) till I see my endo soon. So far so good at seven grams though. I found a good supplier for bulk 50% or 99% trans-resveratrol as well.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

My post cycle therapy for the 1-t cycle i'm on right now will be just the Dermacrine Sustain. It does have chrysin in it as well as a couple other ingredients I can't recall. I do have test, estradiol, fsh, and lh blood levels before cycle, and will take again after PCT

The reasons I don't necessarily care for chrysin are:

[1] Its usual comparative analysis is with aminoglutethimide (CYTADREN) a 1st gen, Type 2 compound. There are MUCH better AIs today.

[2] The competitive inhibition of steroidal cytochorme systems makes for interesting steroidal metabolism - this can have an effect on long-acting esters as well as any complimentary steroidal post-cycle product.


Being wary of these considerations is likely a more prudent approach because if it were up to me, there is no way I'd employ chrysin as monotherapy and call it a day.


D_

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Devon

Sorry to chime in out of nowhere, but I thought this might be as good a place as any. I've been lurking here and sifting through threads for a while, since I have been suffering from symptoms of hypogonadism for months and am currently using Dermacrine Sustain to help get my T levels back into a comfort zone, with some mild, inconsistent improvements. It turns out, though, that my Estradiol (E2) is way high as well (as is DHT), so I am looking into AI possibilities to drive down its levels.

I understand that Estradiol is metabolized by the liver, and that cessation of E2 production does not mean immediate effects, since there remains E2 in the bloodstream. But the answer I can't seem to find anywhere is how long it takes for the liver to process or 'turn over' existing E2 in the system...? Does anybody have any clue about whether we're talkig days or weeks or months? I just really want to be able to evaluate by what point a treatment should be working or not.

Any info appreciated!

Do you have any idea what your levels are/were?

If we are talking a post-cycle scenario; there is dependency on the ester used of many androgens amongst a host of other things. It has taken some users over a year to regain control over endogenous mechanisms; some never do. A lot will be based on history.


D_

[Devon]

Never a steroid user; this stuff happened, like many others, as a result of finasteride. Been about 11 months since I dropped it. Regrettably I have only had my levels tested recently, so I don't know what kind of progression things have made, if any.

Total T levels 13 (4.6 - 28)
E2 273 (73 - 283)
Dht 4787 (860 - 3406)
Free T 55.8 (31 - 94)

Sorry these are Canadian values, but I think the basic idea is apparent.

[celc5]

subbed

[rabican]

interesting, id like to see Crowler or Eric (at PP)'s thoughts...