HCG which method is best!!!
- 11-13-2007, 12:07 PM
HCG which method is best!!!
I'm confused on HCG!!
If I want to run test for 13 weeks as part of a larger stack. What is the best way to run HCG to get back quickly (I had test atrophy doing 320 IOU 2x week for 16 weeks on my last cycle):
1 - 13weeks HCG at 250 IU per day
2 - 13weeks HCG at 250 IU 3 x week
3 - last 4 weeks of cycle HCG at 250 IU per day
4 - last 4 weeks of cycle HCG at 250 IU 3 x week
Too many protocols say various things, i hope there is one of you guys who really know what you're talking about and would help spreading the knowledge! =)
- 11-17-2007, 07:10 PM
i agree with you, too many protocols over too many years.
i have never seen one solid PCT protocol that is fool proof. everyone had their own method.
i suggest you experiment on your own, sorry no good info from me.
out of your four options. i would choose 3. thats just me.
- 11-17-2007, 07:32 PM
This is a topic worth discussing. I too ran 250iu x2 tru out a cycle with not much or any difference. Anyone out there have a good protocol.
11-24-2007, 01:17 AM
I would go with a e3d approach instead, to help avoid LH desensitization. I'm not sure about how long you can wait until using HCG....
I'm facing that issue right now, but don't really have a choice, because I started a test/Eq cycle a month ago and didn't get my HCG until today (stupid move to start cycle before having all ancillaries, but sh!t happens...lessons are learned). I'm running (250mg TE/200mg Eq) E4D, and plan on running a 10 week cycle. I know a lot of guys would say I don't need HCG for this cycle, but I want a seamless transition with minimal losses at the end.
So I'm considering running HCG E3d for the last 4 weeks of my cycle. Not sure about the dose yet though...any help would be appreciated...I weigh 180 now...trying to hit 200 by end of cycle
Also...I'm thinking of using dermacrine sustain instead of clomid to avoid possible carcinogenic effects...but I'm not sure if this will be an adequate substitute...anybody have advice?
11-29-2007, 08:12 PM
2x a week at 250iu is the best protocol IMO. This keeps the testes active without down regulating leydig receptors. This should make for a much quicker recovery come PCT.
Its best to start the hCG 2 weeks into the cycle and drop it about 2 weeks before your done with the cycle. (or 2 weeks before the long acting ester clear out) This will allow your leydigs to resensitize again for LH stimulation once you start PCT.
I’ve had plenty of guys follow this protocol and then run a Sustain only PCT. They’ve said its the best recovery they’ve ever had. You will get a lot more feedback on this over on Elite.
11-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Hey there's the man I'm looking for....
I was wanting to do that, but my HCG didn't come in time (stupid for me to start without in hand, but lesson learned).
I'm running 250mgTE/200mgEq e4d in week 4 right now, and just got my HCG. Do you suggest I do anything different than what you suggested above? I will be running 10 or so weeks.
I have the Derm Sust for PCT...what protocol do you suggest?
I am strongly considering running toremifene for PCT too with X-Lean and Humanatest for cortisol-blocking and natural test booster.
You say that guys have major success with only derm sust...but in my case (2 weeks late on the HCG), would I need a slightly more rigorous PCT?
Thanks in advance!
11-29-2007, 09:07 PM
If you’ve been on for 4 weeks now you have lost a little sensitivity. Start out with 500iu for your first 2 shots then move back down to the 250iu doses.
Wait 3 weeks after your last shot to start the Dermacrine Sustain. Run this at 5 pumps for 30 days. A low dose run of toremifene is not a bad idea, but be careful of the anti-cortisol sups. IMO, you don’t want to be running any 7-keto DHEA metabolites for PCT as then can negatively influence your HTPA and lower your LH release. These sups are better suited as a cycle finisher (while your AAS are clearing) or for a cutting cycle.
If you want cortisol control for PCT, get some phosphatydlserine. If you want an additional T boost then make sure you get one of the non-steroidal/hormonal products. (such as the ATD, forme, 6-bromo, sups)
11-29-2007, 09:31 PM
Is it OK to mix the HCG in the syringe with my oilbased goodies, or do you suggest shooting separately...figured I'd kill two birds with one needle since I'm e4d anyway. I'm wondering if the BA would hurt though IM...maybe I would be better injecting it into my fat, so my glutes aren't too sore to squat.
11-29-2007, 11:15 PM
01-13-2008, 02:57 AM
01-13-2008, 03:16 AM
i found some
regarding DHEA and its effects on the axis http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...RVAbstractPlus
7-oxo-dhea and its effects
Sulcová J, Hill M, Masek Z, Ceska R, Novácek A, Hampl R, Stárka L.
Institute of Endocrinology, Prague, Czech Republic. [email protected]
The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of 7-oxo-DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) on the serum levels of steroid sexual hormones, gonadotropins, lipids and lipoproteins in men. 7-oxo-DHEA was applied onto the skin as a gel to 10 volunteers aged 27 to 72 years for 5 consecutive days. The single dose contained 25 mg 7-oxo-DHEA. Serum concentrations of testosterone, estradiol, cortisol, androstenedione, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), total cholesterol, HDL- and LDL-cholesterol, triglycerides, apolipoprotein A-I and B and lipoprotein(a) were measured before the beginning and shortly after the end of the steroid application. After the treatment, we noted the following significant changes: a decline of testosterone and estradiol levels, increase of LH, HDL-cholesterol and apolipoprotein A-I levels. The decrease of total cholesterol levels was of the borderline significance. A slight but significant increase was found in apolipoprotein B and lipoprotein(a). The most expressive was the fall of the atherogenic index. We suggest that the gel containing 7-oxo-DHEA might be a suitable drug for improving the composition of the steroid and lipid parameters in elderly men.
PMID: 11300231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
hmm, i have started my pct with torem today and have been taking 7-cort and retain2,,,i feel like i should stop them from reading these papers, and yet afraid i will have a rebound in cortisol and i lose gains. what to do...
01-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Concerning the 7-keto, I was making reference to it being able to negatively influence LH by itself, aside from its action on cortisol. Besides, 7-keto doesn’t have that strong of an effect on actually reducing cortisol. It’s more blocks and modulates the action of cortisol so it’s less catabolic and more repairing.
BTW, reducing cortisol will actually help boost your natural T production, which is why I recommend the use of phosphatidylserine for PCT (a non-hormonal cortisol reducer).
HORMONAL EFFECTS OF PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE DURING 2-WKS OF INTENSE WEIGHT TRAINING
[Annual Meeting Abstracts]
Fahey, T. D.; Pearl, M.
01-14-2008, 08:05 AM
01-14-2008, 01:01 PM
01-14-2008, 01:14 PM
01-14-2008, 02:16 PM
01-15-2008, 05:39 AM
01-15-2008, 05:49 AM
hcg is not rocket science. you're all acting like it's super scientifical.
while on cycle and only while on cycle inj. twice a week @ 250 iu. do a tues/thurs split. it's not hard.
01-15-2008, 05:51 AM
01-15-2008, 05:52 AM
01-15-2008, 06:54 AM
01-15-2008, 08:50 AM
01-15-2008, 09:50 AM
01-15-2008, 11:52 AM
01-15-2008, 01:05 PM
01-16-2008, 12:38 AM
01-16-2008, 06:25 AM
01-21-2008, 04:57 PM
02-11-2008, 10:58 PM
Do 500iu ed for the last 2 weeks of your cycle, im doing it right now. Take nolvadex while doing the hcg for those two weeks to make sure you dont get any gyno and then start clomid after the two weeks. Start the clomid at 150mg for ten days, then 100mg for ten days, then 50mg for 10 days.
03-10-2008, 04:31 AM
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