here is a link to that thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=526986
While nolva and clomid are quite popular, they have several drawbacks. Firstly, both nolva and clomid show an affinity for increasing shbg. It should be noted that clomid raises levels of shbg more so than nolva. If you are not familiar with the effects of elevated shbg, let me help. When nolva and clomid increase lh and fsh, they stimulate more production of test in the testes. When shbg increases the test produced in the body tends to be bound test. As we know, this is detrimental to our goals. We want free test, which only occurs when levels of test are elevated, but shbg remains low.
Another drawback is that nolva and clomid are extremely hepatoxic. That makes them less than optimal for use as pct to a methyl compound. Combining a 3-5 week cycle of a methylated aas/ph/ps with a pct of 3-5 weeks of clomid and/or nolva would be very taxing on the liver.
Clomid also has another problem. It should only be used for a week at most. While it is superior at stimulating lh production, it also decreases sensitivity in the pituitary to Gnrh. This means that as use of clomid continues, the pituitary will produce less lh despite the increase in Gnrh.
Nolva's last drawback is due to its very nature. Since it only blocks estrogen receptors, it allows circulating estrogen to continue to exist. If used for pct of an aromatizing drug, levels of circulating estrogen would be greatly increased when nolva usage was discontinued. Again, this is a less than desirable characteristic, as one of our main goals was to limit estrogen induces sides.
So, let's talk atd. Atd offers several advantages over our more traditional pct drugs. Firstly, atd does not show any affinity for increasing shbg. That means that while test levels continue to increase, there will be an abundance of free test. This allows us to better maintain gains, as well as strength during pct.
Secondly, atd has been shown to be equally as productive as nolva and clomid in stimulating the release of gnrh, and therefore, lh and fsh. Since atd binds directly to the enzyme, there is a decrease in actual levels of circulating estrogen, this is akin to nolva and clomid's action of binding to the receptor, except that it will drastically reduce the chance of estrogen rebound.
Thirdly, atd has the ability to address the androgen feedback loop. This means that atd will block the pituitary from receiving the signals that tell it to stop producing gnrh. This occurs when levels of androgens begin to increase greatly. That means that the pituitary will continue to produce more and more gnrh, therefore more and more lh and fsh. That will allow the testes to more test, and do so more rapidly.
As you can see, atd would be the better option for almost all pct protocols. Where nolva supposedly "shines" is in its ability to allow for the production of new estrogen. This allows for improvement in lipid profiles. This is, however, and ill conceived advantage. A steroidal ai, like atd, also allows for production of new estrogen. The only product I know of that does not allow for any increase in circulating estrogen is arimidex.
So, what do we need? Well, ideally any cycle/pct would include hcg. Since it is the only true lh mimitek out there, and when used in the correct doses is unsurpassed in its ability to maintain testicular mass and function. However, since this isn't an option for everyone, we need something else. I would suggest the use of an ATD product in conjunction with a few other products. A sample might look like so:
75mg atd + 50mg dhea + 1.8g fenugreek + 600mg 6-oxo
50mg atd + 75mg dhea + 2.4g fenugreek + 600mg 6-oxo
25mg atd + 100mg dhea + 3g fenugreek + 400mg 6-oxo
25mg atd + 3.6g fenugreek + 200mg 6-oxo
The combination of 6-oxo and an atd allows the atd to focus on the destruction of estrogens. The 6-oxo is then free to aid in the stimulation of lh and fsh. As neither 6-oxo or atd increase sbgh, there is no concern for desensitization of the pituitary. Therefore, and overload of lh stimulation would be beneficial to our goals. If one so desired, they could also add a cortisol control product, most notably 7-oxo-dhea, as well as a natural test booster. Natural test boosters generally increase free test as well, and do not show any affinity for increasig sbgh. Therefore, even more free test.
On a last note, ALR has noted that studies show that atd can be used on cycle, at about 75mg per day in order to maintain healthy testicular mass and function. I am slightly leary of this hypothesis, but I have not tried it on my own. Since atd does address both feedback loops, it is possible that it could be used on cycle to maintain healthy levels of lh production, though I am not sure, and would not want someone on a strong cycle to try this out.
Originally Posted by ekilla2003
well its legal and from my eyes the best pct product to use so why not
You are entitled to your opinion, all I need is some science to back it up, and I'll change my mind. Everything I have read says otherwise. I'll put it this way, nolva has 2 real advantages: firstly, it acts faster. Since it binds to the receptor instead of the enzyme its effects are seen immediately. Secondly, it is very powerful in the liver, which is why it is so helpful in recovering healthy lipid values. If you love nolva, the best way to use it is for 3 days at the beginning of pct, 60/40/20 while increasing your atd dosage 25/50/75. Starting day 4 you would drop nolva and keep using the atd and taper it down slowly over a 3-4 week period.
