Furazadrol without a SERM?

[cardiffgiant]

Does anybody think you need a serm for a furazadrol solo?Is SNS stack all that is needed or what?

 

[adil]

yes, IMO a SERM should be used after any supressive drugs

 

[celc5]

Does anybody think you need a serm for a furazadrol solo?Is SNS stack all that is needed or what?

BigT just ran a successful cycle with furazadrol. I'd ask him, cuz he's a smart feller :blink:

 

[cardiffgiant]

BigT just ran a successful cycle with furazadrol. I'd ask him, cuz he's a smart feller :blink:

Thanks that's exactly what I did. I will do mostly what he did but PCT a little diff.
Fura 3x/day for 40 days
e-form for 30 days(start 10 days into cycle)
PCT-Alri restore,Blueup,Paravol-will probably add some more anticort(damn wish I could find a decent supp store in AZ).CC purchases need to stop cause I need to focus on paying bills not creating them.

 

[drksun]

Thanks that's exactly what I did. I will do mostly what he did but post cycle therapy a little diff.
Fura 3x/day for 40 days
e-form for 30 days(start 10 days into cycle)
post cycle therapy-Alri restore,Blueup,Paravol-will probably add some more anticort(damn wish I could find a decent supp store in AZ).CC purchases need to stop cause I need to focus on paying bills not creating them.

for cort. control try 25mg DHEA on off days, read dr. d's pule cycle post in the steroid forum. Blue up is a great product, im on it atm.
I would still keep a SERM on hand incase there is major shutdown, my only concern is the impact furazadrol has on lipids, if you ran your post cycle therapy with toremifene citrate, it will improve your lipids, also its not very hepatoxic compared to tamoxifen citrate, you might also want to run lipid support supps like red rice yeast with coq-10, fish oil, hawthorn berry. The advertisement about the lowering of cholesterol is the lowering of HDL, the radio of HDL/LDL is more important, so in actuality its not good for you.

 

[RisingAgainst]

for cort. control try 25mg DHEA on off days, read dr. d's pule cycle post in the steroid forum. Blue up is a great product, im on it atm.

Dr D is a great guy, and I like to think of him as a "friend" but DHEA is not a good alternative for suppressing cortisol, ESPECIALLY in the PCT timeframe.

 

[RisingAgainst]

Thanks that's exactly what I did. I will do mostly what he did but post cycle therapy a little diff.
Fura 3x/day for 40 days
e-form for 30 days(start 10 days into cycle)
PCT-Alri restore,Blueup,Paravol-will probably add some more anticort(damn wish I could find a decent supp store in AZ).CC purchases need to stop cause I need to focus on paying bills not creating them.

One more of my problems with restore aside from dosing is dosing in a different manner of speaking.. You should be either starting your cortisol agent on day 15, or slowly ramping it up from day 1 (waste of money?) anyways... It's common knowledge that you ramp your anti-e down, so.. tell me my friend, how can you accomplish both with a product that tries to be an all in one? hehe I love the thought of it during a non hormonal cycle, but NOT during PCT as said like 10000 times before this.

 

[drksun]

Dr D is a great guy, and I like to think of him as a "friend" but DHEA is not a good alternative for suppressing cortisol, ESPECIALLY in the post cycle therapy timeframe.

i didnt mean cort. control during post cycle therapy, i mean cort. control for the off days of the pulse cycle, if you dont think dr. d is right about the DHEA for off day cort control, then why trust him on pulsing? Also dhea is a known anti-glucocorticoid, here a pub from nature, it quotes the anti-corisol effects of DHEA, Cortisol/DHEA Ratios in Depression

and..

DHEA: NATURAL COUNTER-REGULTOR OF CORTISOL

The emphasis on the DHEA/cortisol ratio as a key health determinant is hardly unique to the Army Ranger and Khorram studies just described. Most of the papers I reviewed to prepare this article specifically mention DHEA's anti-glucocorticoid (i.e. anti-cortisol) action and/or the DHEA/cortisol ratio as key factors in DHEA's benefits. The following assessment by Regelson and Kalimi, veteran DHEA researchers, is somewhat typical of the DHEA literature: "Among the myriad of biological actions, the anti-glucocorticoid properties of DHEA are now clearly emerging. In fact the anti-glucocorticoid action of DHEA may explain many of the seemingly diverse biological activities of DHEA, such as its effects on stress, obesity, diabetes, immune response and protection against acute lethal viral infections."

In fact, even Regelson and Kalimi's enumeration of areas of biological effect of the antagonistic action of DHEA and cortisol does not go far enough. I listed 14 of the key properties of cortisol (excess) action - i.e. its "dark side." DHEA has actions opposite to cortisol in all 14 areas listed. It thus becomes obvious that one of the key functions of DHEA is to serve as a counter-regulator to cortisol - to "put the brakes on the cortisol gas pedal," as it were - so that cortisol's catabolic (tissue-destroying) actions do not get out of control. And since cortisol tends to remain constant or increase with age (cortisol also increases dramatically with severe/prolonged stress), while DHEA drops dramatically with age/stress, it is obvious that there is a general life-long, progressively worsening failure of DHEA to oppose the catabolic excesses of cortisol.

B. Sears calls excess cortisol the "second pillar of aging", (12) while Dilman and Dean also focus on the general age-related failure of human physiology to control cortisol levels. (13)
Thus, it should be clear that maintaining a lifelong high DHEA /low cortisol ratio is a key anti-aging strategy. And the simplest way to maintain high blood levels of DHEA from the 30's onwards is through DHEA supplementation.

 

[RisingAgainst]

i didnt mean cort. control during post cycle therapy, i mean cort. control for the off days of the pulse cycle, if you dont think dr. d is right about the DHEA for off day cort control, then why trust him on pulsing? Also dhea is a known anti-glucocorticoid, here a pub from nature, it quotes the anti-corisol effects of DHEA, http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:83U5522DilIJ:www.nature.com/npp/journal/v26/n3/full/1395805a.html+DHEA+cortisol+antagonist&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari

Sure show me a study on ONE portion of the story.. lol look at the big picture, DHEA can be and is suppressive. He's also not intending on pulsing the Furazadrol. Appreciate the info you've given us though man.

 

[drksun]

Sure show me a study on ONE portion of the story.. lol look at the big picture, DHEA can be and is suppressive. He's also not intending on pulsing the Furazadrol. Appreciate the info you've given us though man.

my bad,

Thanks that's exactly what I did. I will do mostly what he did but post cycle therapy a little diff.
Fura 3x/day for 40 days
e-form for 30 days(start 10 days into cycle)
PCT-Alri restore,Blueup,Paravol-will probably add some more anticort(damn wish I could find a decent supp store in AZ).CC purchases need to stop cause I need to focus on paying bills not creating them.

i was referring to this post, i though he was pulsing but thats someone else. Im gonna procrastinate more from my paper thats due in 5 hours and research how suppressive dhea is ..

 

[RisingAgainst]

my bad,

i was referring to this post, i though he was pulsing but thats someone else. Im gonna procrastinate more from my paper thats due in 5 hours and research how suppressive dhea is ..

if you wanna skip that I can give you a quick rundown... (it's not very suppressive at all, but enough for me to not wanna include it in PCT, even with the miniscule dose listed above)

 

[drksun]

if you wanna skip that I can give you a quick rundown... (it's not very suppressive at all, but enough for me to not wanna include it in post cycle therapy, even with the miniscule dose listed above)

heres what i found..

"According to this study, DHEA isn't suppressive at all. Even at does of 1,600mg per day for 28 days, "serum total testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, and estrone levels did not change"."

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/24630-interesting-dhea-study.html

and a lot more info here, http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/25710-dhea-htpa-suppression.html

 

[RisingAgainst]

heres what i found..

"According to this study, DHEA isn't suppressive at all. Even at does of 1,600mg per day for 28 days, "serum total testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, and estrone levels did not change"."

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/24630-interesting-dhea-study.html

and a lot more info here, http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/25710-dhea-htpa-suppression.html

They weren't to specific on those studies.. and it's my understanding "anybody" can post studies on pubmed these days. For those numbers to be unchanged at that dose, something was wrong.. that study is a farce or "did not change = changed slightly"... to many people misuse the english language to their advantage. Furthermore, look at the dates involved on this. As far as the second link goes... well it's both supportive and arguementitive... point being, I'm confident that those arguements hold no scientific backing and DHEA is somewhat suppressive in it's own rights.

 

[drksun]

They weren't to specific on those studies.. and it's my understanding "anybody" can post studies on pubmed these days. For those numbers to be unchanged at that dose, something was wrong.. that study is a farce or "did not change = changed slightly"... to many people misuse the english language to their advantage. Furthermore, look at the dates involved on this. As far as the second link goes... well it's both supportive and arguementitive... point being, I'm confident that those arguements hold no scientific backing and DHEA is somewhat suppressive in it's own rights.

yeah the evidence is mixed, i think dhea at lose dose would be beneficial during a pule, but personally i would leave the PCT to a SERM, i wonder how suppressive 11-oxo is at the recommend dose?

 

[RisingAgainst]

yeah the evidence is mixed, i think dhea at lose dose would be beneficial during a pule, but personally i would leave the post cycle therapy to a SERM, i wonder how suppressive 11-oxo is at the recommend dose?

That's something I honestly couldn't tell you a damn thing about man.. lol I only study what interests me.. and adrenosterone doesnt.

 

[EasyEJL]

heres what i found..

"According to this study, DHEA isn't suppressive at all. Even at does of 1,600mg per day for 28 days, "serum total testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, estradiol, and estrone levels did not change"."

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/24630-interesting-dhea-study.html

and a lot more info here, http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/25710-dhea-htpa-suppression.html

Patrick Arnold says he developed gyno from taking DHEA in those sorts of doses, and pretty much if it can cause gyno, it can cause suppression

 

[RisingAgainst]

Patrick Arnold says he developed gyno from taking DHEA in those sorts of doses, and pretty much if it can cause gyno, it can cause suppression

If he told you he developed gyno from eating a certain soy product for 2 months would you ACTUALLY believe him?

(sorry had to play devil's advocate here...)

 

[EasyEJL]

If he told you he developed gyno from eating a certain soy product for 2 months would you ACTUALLY believe him?

(sorry had to play devil's advocate here...)

Well, he actually had posts from the time it was happening, it was an "I remember getting gyno back when" sort of thing. To directly answer your question, no I wouldn't believe that, as it wouldn't make sense. But DHEA metabolizes into a number of different hormones, so suppression + gyno makes sense from it.

Even he felt that up to 500mg, maybe 1g/day was safe tho

 

[cardiffgiant]

One more of my problems with restore aside from dosing is dosing in a different manner of speaking.. You should be either starting your cortisol agent on day 15, or slowly ramping it up from day 1 (waste of money?) anyways... It's common knowledge that you ramp your anti-e down, so.. tell me my friend, how can you accomplish both with a product that tries to be an all in one? hehe I love the thought of it during a non hormonal cycle, but NOT during post cycle therapy as said like 10000 times before this.

Well all I need now is for you or Macedaddy to send me some originalAXPCT and I'll splurge for the reducext.Man still didn't get that sample SDNG-just checked a little while ago. i was trying to be cheap and probably shoulda thought better of it so now I'll have to see-At least i have time so. Again ATD frightens me. it's funny too that I have read countless times about people preferring the ogAXPCT. Why did they change it?Macedaddy?Does anybody even use novxt for light PCT?Just curious cause to me as standalone I thought it was useless. I'm starting to think that sample is not gonna be in the works by the way. :bruce1:

 

[celc5]

i was trying to be cheap and probably shoulda thought better of it

Save your money and in the mean time do some more studying to find what others use in post cycle.

IMO the restore isn't dosed high enough to be an effective ai, after using it myself. I'll be using formestane or 6oxo next time around.

Also, the cort control in restore isn't dosed high enough either and I had to add an additional cort control during post cycle for effects.

 

[cardiffgiant]

Save your money and in the mean time do some more studying to find what others use in post cycle.

IMO the restore isn't dosed high enough to be an effective ai, after using it myself. I'll be using formestane or 6oxo next time around.

Also, the cort control in restore isn't dosed high enough either and I had to add an additional cort control during post cycle for effects.

Won't the forma during cycle help make PCT easier?I will probably get something else I'll see but don't wanna get crazy with the ATd.

 

[EasyEJL]

Won't the forma during cycle help make post cycle therapy easier?I will probably get something else I'll see but don't wanna get crazy with the ATd.

no. the on cycle formestane helps keep down any bloating or estrogen conversion during cycle (which is only a risk with some compounds, not all). In the end that doesn't change suppression, or the estrogen rebound that occurs when your body restarts testosterone productions.

So having taken it during cycle doesn't affect what happens after the cycle.

 

[celc5]

no. the on cycle formestane helps keep down any bloating or estrogen conversion during cycle (which is only a risk with some compounds, not all). In the end that doesn't change suppression, or the estrogen rebound that occurs when your body restarts testosterone productions.

So having taken it during cycle doesn't affect what happens after the cycle.

good question from Card...AND... good response from Easy :goodpost:

 

[cardiffgiant]

Hey Celc thanks for the info-I will probably get the SNS stack but still wanna use restore maybe. Maybe start ATd then 2 weeks in reduce xt (anti-cort) and lower or remove ATd at some point and use restore. I was originally gonna go with SNS stack but shoulda thought more and remembered how nuts I got with my Sdrol post cycle therapy SERM and way too much ATD.My libido wasn't nonexistent but it was definitely not the same for some time.

 

[drksun]

:hammer:

Hey Celc thanks for the info-I will probably get the SNS stack but still wanna use restore maybe. Maybe start ATd then 2 weeks in reduce xt (anti-cort) and lower or remove ATd at some point and use restore. I was originally gonna go with SNS stack but shoulda thought more and remembered how nuts I got with my Sdrol post cycle therapy SERM and way too much ATD.My libido wasn't nonexistent but it was definitely not the same for some time.

 

[cardiffgiant]

:hammer:

Huh?

 

[cardiffgiant]

Any thoughts on my latest proposal?May use lean extreme instead of reduce xt. So SNS ATD,then 2weeks in alri restore and lean extreme'Also blue up.paravol for duration of pct.

 

[Brolic]

what do u guys think about hdrol and fuzzy stack for a bulk

 

[Brolic]

BigT just ran a successful cycle with furazadrol. I'd ask him, cuz he's a smart feller :blink:

where cani find bigT??