Dissapointed Cause I'm Losing My Gains

[Eagleman003]

I did a cycle of 1ad/4ad at mild dosages and I went from 235 to a 237. I PCTed with Nolva @ 40/40/20 and 6-oxo @ 500mg/200mg/100mg and activate adn 2 pills a day along with cycle support and zinc. It has been 3 and a half weeks and I have lost around 6 pounds which I am very mad about. I kept my calories a little lower then when on cycle because I wanted to lose the fat and bloat that I had. But only gaining a good 5-6 pounds from 1-ad and 4-ad seems to be ****ty. My face is still bloated form the cycle and IDK WHY! I just started Extreme lean for cortisol problems and bought another bottle of 6-oxo which im running at 300mg a night.

My training volume is the same now as it was on cycle pratically.

day 1 - chest 14 ets
day 2 - back 14 sets
day 3 - off
day 4 - shoulders 18 sets (including traps)
day 5 - bi's tri's 10 sets each
day 6 - off
day - repeat

My strength is still pretty much there. It went down a few reps here and there but thast normal. Why do you guys think I am losing these gains? Do you think its cause im kinda trying to cut now a little and do more cardio that the water and glycogen from my body is drained and thats the loss or weight?

 

[JZ7757]

Keep your cals up just as high as while on cycle. Too many people cut the cals at pct, which helps to lose those gains.

Addionally to what you have been doing, excess clean food, BCAA's and coristol antagonist will help you keep them.

 

[FrankJ]

Thats why Im starting to think short oral cycles are bullsh1t. Very little keepable gains.

Better off rotating natural test boosters for slow and steady gains that you never lose.

Either that or go 12-16 weeks on injectable cycles with oral kickstarts - thats been proven effective.

 

[JZ7757]

Well, this orals vs. injectables has been beaten to death again and again....here and on BB.

Each has its place, pro's/con's, uneducated people doing both, etc, etc. Most will agree that you can gain & keep more over a longer period of time with injectables. They also cost allot more and still require a heavy post cycle therapy.

On ther other hand, many people have had good to great success with oral runs, with Pct and kept 70-80% of the gains. Myself included. I have put on over 80lbs in the last three years, keeping 50lbs of it with oral cycles. Just recenly a nice lean bulk/recomp that got me to a great lean weight. I feel i would be further along now if i got my diet in check earlier, but oh well.

A good injectable cycle still needs a solid PCT reguardless to help maintain gains. If you drop cals/dont run a good post cycle therapy, you will lose gains.

Ive never done an injectable cycle, so i cant draw from personal experiance, but just from my readings and friends who have done them.

 

[FrankJ]

50lbs - thats damn good. I was about 172 when I started messing with short oral cycles a few years ago, now Im about 190 with similar fat amounts.

I got up to 200 on my last halodrol-50 cycle but lost some mass since then.

I guess I take back what I just said.

 

[JZ7757]

Yeah, indeed not bad at all, but as i mentioned with as much as i have done, I have had a sub par diet for most of it. Only up until mid last year did i get it in check and start really eating clean 365 days/year. What a difference....

I'm now 5-6, 190lbs and around 11-12% bf after the recent recomp.

This may be a turn off to orals for some, but I have done (1) 4wks sd light/no serm pct, (1) 4wk pp light/no serm pct, (1) 4wk pp serm pct, (2) 6 wks pp/sd stacks with good serm pct, and the recent pp/trn/zol with serm pct.

On the other hand, gains vs. gains aside from PCT, I will not argue that you can gain/keep more mass with less fat on an injectable cycle.

ok, sorry for the hijack! :lol:

 

[celc5]

My training volume is the same now as it was on cycle pratically.

I think this is a common mistake that people make in post cycle therapy. I'm learning that I require MORE sleep and MORE calories as mentioned by the previous poster. In response to your volume statement, LESS volume with SAME or MORE intensity in the gym.

I also believe it's a good time to slightly modify your routine to "shock" the muscles and the gains coming. Any thoughts on modifying your routine for PCT? I say, why psychologically punish yourself when you know strength is going to slightly dip? Change the exercises a bit and you won't know the difference. Good logic or bad?

 

[crossfit14]

Keepin gains

How much of a role do natural tests boosters supps have A role in keeping gains. And would anything like a 20 rep squat routine, or lots of heavy compounds do any good to rebound testosterone after a cycle?

 

[thesinner]

How much of a role do natural tests boosters supps have A role in keeping gains. And would anything like a 20 rep squat routine, or lots of heavy compounds do any good to rebound testosterone after a cycle?

The common practice for post cycle therapy that the pro's have used for a while now is pretty f*ing simple (not the crazy elaborate post cycle therapy's you see people logging these days):

Clomid + Nolvadex peppered with Clenbuteral

If you don't have clen, ephedra works through the same mechanisms we're going after. I won't go into too much detail because there's a few protocols one can do, but here's the basics:

-Start with a huge dose of clomid on day 1, quickly taper that down each following day until you get to 50mg. You usually don't want to stay on clomid for more than just a couple weeks (it can make you all emotional....like a song by My Chemical Romance or something).

-Nolvadex at pretty normal dosages all the way through. Some start with 40mg, but depending on how much clomid you use, you can use 20 if need be.

-Start using clen or ephedrine a 2 weeks or so deep into post cycle therapy. Beta-agonists will help control negative effects of cortisol (muscle loss and fat gain), and aide in getting your endogeneous steroid hormones back to normal.

-I don't know if I fully understand your Q about squats. But it's best to continue to train during PCT; however, you need to take it easy. There's no benefit in going crazy like you did while on cycle. While your hormones are trying to balance out, your recovery time is gonna take a lot longer than usual. I prefer to train in a HIT or HST fashion during post cycle therapy, as these take less time to recover from.

 

[not_big_enuf]

IGF and GH are great for post cycle therapy.... well, GH should be run longer than that... but you get the point.

Actually, they are great at any time!!!!!!!!

 

[jomi822]

The common practice for post cycle therapy that the pro's have used for a while now is pretty f*ing simple (not the crazy elaborate post cycle therapy's you see people logging these days):

Clomid + Nolvadex peppered with Clenbuteral

If you don't have clen, ephedra works through the same mechanisms we're going after. I won't go into too much detail because there's a few protocols one can do, but here's the basics:

-Start with a huge dose of clomid on day 1, quickly taper that down each following day until you get to 50mg. You usually don't want to stay on clomid for more than just a couple weeks (it can make you all emotional....like a song by My Chemical Romance or something).

-Nolvadex at pretty normal dosages all the way through. Some start with 40mg, but depending on how much clomid you use, you can use 20 if need be.

-Start using clen or ephedrine a 2 weeks or so deep into post cycle therapy. Beta-agonists will help control negative effects of cortisol (muscle loss and fat gain), and aide in getting your endogeneous steroid hormones back to normal.

-I don't know if I fully understand your Q about squats. But it's best to continue to train during post cycle therapy; however, you need to take it easy. There's no benefit in going crazy like you did while on cycle. While your hormones are trying to balance out, your recovery time is gonna take a lot longer than usual. I prefer to train in a HIT or HST fashion during post cycle therapy, as these take less time to recover from.

the mother of all PCT drugs is igf-1 lr3. i cant imagine ever running a PCT without it again.....keep ALL gains and lose fat while jolting your testicules right back into existence.

anyone who runs a pct with igf-1 is really missing out.

 

[not_big_enuf]

the mother of all post cycle therapy drugs is igf-1 lr3. i cant imagine ever running a PCT without it again.....keep ALL gains and lose fat while jolting your testicules right back into existence.

anyone who runs a post cycle therapy with igf-1 is really missing out.

Yep... damn straight!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SubliminalX]

50lbs - thats damn good. I was about 172 when I started messing with short oral cycles a few years ago, now Im about 190 with similar fat amounts.

I got up to 200 on my last halodrol-50 cycle but lost some mass since then.

I guess I take back what I just said.

Keep in mind that 20-somethings have an easier time gaining and keeping new mass.

 

[thesinner]

the mother of all post cycle therapy drugs is igf-1 lr3. i cant imagine ever running a PCT without it again.....keep ALL gains and lose fat while jolting your testicules right back into existence.

anyone who runs a post cycle therapy with igf-1 is really missing out.

I've used IGF post cycle, and (minus the hypo episodes) loved it. Is it really that powerful to hide any lost gains, or is there a equilibrium from test and IGF that I'm missing?

 

[celc5]

thesinner, I've seen you answer "newbie" style questions with valuable information and a lot of patience. The way you answered the newb question above made me remember that you did the same thing for me about 6 months ago when I made my first post :head:

...back to the topic at hand.

 

[thesinner]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm always here to help. If I can prevent people from making the same mistakes I've done in the past, I'm all for it.

 

[SubliminalX]

-Start using clen or ephedrine a 2 weeks or so deep into post cycle therapy. Beta-agonists will help control negative effects of cortisol (muscle loss and fat gain), and aide in getting your endogeneous steroid hormones back to normal.

That's interesting. Never thought about using a thermogenic during PCT. Is there no worry about burning up muscle with Clen?

I do use LX for cortisol control though.

 

[thesinner]

That's interesting. Never thought about using a thermogenic during post cycle therapy. Is there no worry about burning up muscle with Clen?

I do use LX for cortisol control though.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with increased cAMP. This is more of an old school technique that Big A (owner of Professional Muscle) promotes.