[RenegadeRows]

How I got rid of my gyno
Going to make this short and sweet.

Lots of guys on here wondering what the best protocol is for reducing, or getting rid of existing gyno. I've tried lots of things, and I'm going to outline a plan that is relatively safe, side effect free that got rid of my gyno, that I had for many years from puberty and PH.

I had REAL gyno. Lumps, tissue, pain, ugliness, puffiness. It was a mess.


The plan

ED - Everyday
EOD - Every other day
-

Week 1: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 50mg ATD ED
Week 2: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 25mg ATD ED
Week 3: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 25mg ATD ED
Week 4: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 25mg ATD EOD
Week 5: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 25mg ATD EOD
Week 6: 60mg Raloxifene ED + 25mg ATD EOD
Week 7: 60mg Raloxifene ED
Week 8: 60mg Raloxifene ED
Week 9: 30mg Raloxifene ED
Week 10: 30mg Raloxifene ED

-


Raloxifene
Studies have shown that Raloxifene has a better success rate of reducing the size of gynecomastia in men than Nolvadex(1). It is also less hepatoxic (harmful to the liver) than Nolvadex. 60mg is a standard dosage, which is tapered down to a half dose of 30mg for the last 2 weeks of the cycle in order to avoid rebound. Ralox also takes about 3 weeks to start working, therefore the full 10 weeks is nessecary.

ATD
At 25mg, ATD inhibits conversion of testosterone to estrogen without eliminating estrogen completely. The reason we keep this dosage low is to avoid side effects related to low estrogen, such as sore joints, lethargy and low libido. With an extreme tapering down of every other day dosing and Raloxifene to boot, there will be little to no rebound with this protocol.

Backup Plan: Epistane
I have seen extremely good results with low dosed Epistane (10-20mg). This product has shown extremely good anti estrogenic and gynecomastia reducing properties. However, it is a steroid, and there is a possibility that the gyno could return or worsen during post cycle therapy. Personally, I don't recommend any more than 20mg when your goal is to reduce gyno, but that is an argumentive point. I experienced growth at 30mg, but everyone responds differently. Just remember Epistane is an anabolic agent.



(1)
Raloxifene and Tamoxifen Treatment of Pubertal Gynecomastia

Lawrence and colleagues report their experience with the use of either raloxifene or tamoxifen, both antiestrogenic agents, in reducing breast size in adolescent boys with benign gynecomastia. The data presented are from a retrospective review of 37 patients: 12 received reassurance alone, 10 received raloxifene (60 mg once daily for 3 to 9 months), and 15 received tamoxifen (10 to 20 mg twice dialy for 3 to 9 months). Baseline studies including LH, FSH, testosterone, and estradiol levels were normal in all subjects and there were no significant differences among the groups with regard to age at initiation of treatment, Tanner stage, BMI or baseline hormone levels. Significant reductions in breast diameter were measured with both raloxifene (2.5cm, 66% reduction) and tamoxifen (2.1cm, 46% reduction). However, a 50% or greater reduction was seen more often in the raloxifene treated group (86% vs 41%). No side effects of the medications were reported.

[Synicus]

Helpful info, thx.

Was your run w/ Ralox after your AAS run and Post Cycle Therapy, ie you ran Ralox and ATD as a standalone cycle?

I have seen extremely good results with low dosed Epistane (10-20mg)

.

Yes, I've thought of this too just coming off Havoc cycle, not big fan of havoc/epistane but i see its use for gyno at low dose, 10-20mg.

[RenegadeRows]

Originally Posted by Synicus

Helpful info, thx.

Was your run w/ Ralox after your anabolic steroids run and Post Cycle Therapy, ie you ran Ralox and ATD as a standalone cycle?

It was a standalone cycle!

[tattoopierced1]

never tried ralox, but i had great success with Letro.

[Stoni9]

pics pre/post by any chance? ive read the threads, but havent seen much photographic proof.

[Movin_weight]

also noticed this with havoc... i have a very mild case of gyno thats not visible to the eye but at 20mg of havoc i noticed reduction but then when i bumped to 40mg it returned almost immediately

if mine was more severe i'd probly try this but the stuff i'v read on receptor sensitivity when running high doses of SERMS and AI's makes me nervous... when a person takes a SERM the body in return produces more estrogen receptors (so i'v read) in order to try and maintain homeostasis... so it basically becomes a foot race against the SERM and estrogen and who makes it to the receptor first, then when you come off the SERM your body is left with a higher level of receptors which can lead to rebound estrogen binding... i'm sure theres more to this and tapering can offset this but it still makes me curious

[newatthis]

what is atd?

Originally Posted by RenegadeRows

How I got rid of my gyno
Going to make this short and sweet.

Lots of guys on here wondering what the best protocol is for reducing, or getting rid of existing gyno. I've tried lots of things, and I'm going to outline a plan that is relatively safe, side effect free that got rid of my gyno, that I had for many years from puberty and PH.

I had REAL gyno. Lumps, tissue, pain, ugliness, puffiness. It was a mess.


The plan


Backup Plan: Epistane
I have seen extremely good results with low dosed Epistane (10-20mg). This product has shown extremely good anti estrogenic and gynecomastia reducing properties. However, it is a steroid, and there is a possibility that the gyno could return or worsen during post cycle therapy. Personally, I don't recommend any more than 20mg when your goal is to reduce gyno, but that is an argumentive point. I experienced growth at 30mg, but everyone responds differently. Just remember Epistane is an anabolic agent.



(1)
Raloxifene and Tamoxifen Treatment of Pubertal Gynecomastia

Lawrence and colleagues report their experience with the use of either raloxifene or tamoxifen, both antiestrogenic agents, in reducing breast size in adolescent boys with benign gynecomastia. The data presented are from a retrospective review of 37 patients: 12 received reassurance alone, 10 received raloxifene (60 mg once daily for 3 to 9 months), and 15 received tamoxifen (10 to 20 mg twice dialy for 3 to 9 months). Baseline studies including LH, FSH, testosterone, and estradiol levels were normal in all subjects and there were no significant differences among the groups with regard to age at initiation of treatment, Tanner stage, BMI or baseline hormone levels. Significant reductions in breast diameter were measured with both raloxifene (2.5cm, 66% reduction) and tamoxifen (2.1cm, 46% reduction). However, a 50% or greater reduction was seen more often in the raloxifene treated group (86% vs 41%). No side effects of the medications were reported.

[bioman]

I agree 100%.

I've used a similar protocol with either nolva or toremifene and ATD with great success. This latest bout of gyno...tiny and not visible, but I'd like to keep it that way...has been more stubborn so I have gone on Epi. Epi does seem to be working and I will keep the doses low based on the recommendations here.

[RenegadeRows]

Originally Posted by Movin_weight

also noticed this with havoc... i have a very mild case of gyno thats not visible to the eye but at 20mg of havoc i noticed reduction but then when i bumped to 40mg it returned almost immediately

if mine was more severe i'd probly try this but the stuff i'v read on receptor sensitivity when running high doses of SERMS and AI's makes me nervous... when a person takes a SERM the body in return produces more estrogen receptors (so i'v read) in order to try and maintain homeostasis... so it basically becomes a foot race against the SERM and estrogen and who makes it to the receptor first, then when you come off the SERM your body is left with a higher level of receptors which can lead to rebound estrogen binding... i'm sure theres more to this and tapering can offset this but it still makes me curious

That's interesting about the havoc. I noticed the same with Epi from 20mg > 30mg, not a big difference but it returned like you said.

Unfortunately it's true about the SERMs creating more receptors. Good thing I only kept the Ralox dosages at 60mg.

But the thing is, once you reduce the size of the gyno with this protocol, and your body returns to normal (homeostasis), the gyno will not grow, even though there are more estrogen receptors present. Remember, gyno only grows when your hormone levels are wacky (and more estrogen is present.) Considering most of us got gyno from either puberty or steroids, we don't have to worry about gyno returning unless you a) do more steroids or b) have an endocrine problem.

[RenegadeRows]

Originally Posted by bioman

I agree 100%.

I've used a similar protocol with either nolva or toremifene and ATD with great success. This latest bout of gyno...tiny and not visible, but I'd like to keep it that way...has been more stubborn so I have gone on Epi. Epi does seem to be working and I will keep the doses low based on the recommendations here.

I've also experienced good results from Nolva and Tore but found Ralox to be the best at reducing and also the least sides. Let us know how the Epi goes bio, it's really amazing what you'll see happen. 20mg was the sweet spot for me!

[RenegadeRows]

Originally Posted by newatthis

what is atd?

Some ATD products:

Novedex XT
Rebound XT
Inhibit-E

[Movin_weight]

Originally Posted by RenegadeRows

That's interesting about the havoc. I noticed the same with Epi from 20mg > 30mg, not a big difference but it returned like you said.

Unfortunately it's true about the SERMs creating more receptors. Good thing I only kept the Ralox dosages at 60mg.

But the thing is, once you reduce the size of the gyno with this protocol, and your body returns to normal (homeostasis), the gyno will not grow, even though there are more estrogen receptors present. Remember, gyno only grows when your hormone levels are wacky (and more estrogen is present.) Considering most of us got gyno from either puberty or steroids, we don't have to worry about gyno returning unless you a) do more steroids or b) have an endocrine problem.

Yea that makes sense... and that would explain why people become increasingly prone to gyno, when they continue to run cycles

thanks for sharing your method with us bro and maybe down the road i'll give this a shot

[celc5]

Originally Posted by RenegadeRows

I've also experienced good results from Nolva and Tore but found Ralox to be the best at reducing and also the least sides. Let us know how the Epi goes bio, it's really amazing what you'll see happen. 20mg was the sweet spot for me!

Would you mind sharing a comparison of your experiences with Nolva, Ralox, and Tore? I'd say everyone would be interested in:

1) What were side effects of each (you mentioned ralox to be the least)?

2) Which addressed testicular atrophy most effectively

3) How did each help (or not help) with your gyno issue?

4) Also, have you had any rebound since finishing the protocol you have outlined above?

Nice post, thanks for sharing your experience