[ugab37]

Originally Posted by pistonpump

he pm me bro or email me at pistonpump at hush.com....me and johnfaceman are probably gonna work on this transdermal. Hit me up with whatever you have and ill respond with my side.

Ill do it

[bigbb123]

Question to the OP, the atd that you used to reduce your gyno along with the ralox, was this topical or oral? Also, what are your thoughts on throwing something like yohimburn or Avant Napalm into the mix?

[bigbb123]

bump any replies

[LilPsychotic]

Good ol' Nolvadex with 6-oxo got rid of mine. I started @ 40/300mg, and worked my way down. The gyno virtually vanished, but even still I get a weird sensivity in my chest from time to time. I know I'll be dealing with it again next cycle.

[Magnus19]

Originally Posted by bigbb123

Question to the OP, the atd that you used to reduce your gyno along with the ralox, was this topical or oral? Also, what are your thoughts on throwing something like yohimburn or Avant Napalm into the mix?

in another thread RR said his choice of ATD was Novedex XT.

[bigbb123]

thanx man

[realcheeze]

I'm glad I saw this thread because usually people advice others to take things that they havent tried them selves or not even heard they worked for anyone.

A little backround on my gyno, Ive been fat between 17-20yo i am now 21 and went down in weight from 265 to 212 now and added some muscle all naturally. just run in the morning and lift weights at night. Then i took Proscar fro my hair and It gave me gyno there are lumps under the nipple and the nipple is cone shaped and it also made my ''boys'' smaller, it is a mild case nothing to big but i can wear a dam t-shirt and feel confortable.





Now i got some questions.

Raloxifene seems the most effective as far as I have researched but dont know where to buy it from. Did you use this for 10weeks as opposed to the 6wk going down to 30 EOD to reduce any side effects and rebound, also the capsule is 60mg do u cut it in half.

Pls tell my why u needed to take ADT with Ralox, for most pple Ralox was enough. What do you guys thing about Using Rebound XT with Ralox which is the only ADT ive researched about so far because I heard it will reverse gyno and make ure testis bigger. half the pple who took this have great results and the other half either had no results or claim to have killed thier sex life for ever and became setrile. I dont know who to belive.

As far as possible side effects Im expecting a bit of hair thinning and less energy in the sex department temporarly, anything else i should know about.

Also about ure ''back up plan'' what was this about. Was this to deal with rebound.




anything you guys can answer will be greatly appreciated. Sorry if my questions are a little mess my question mark button doesnt work lol and I am a bit tired from writing an essay.

[celc5]

Be sure to do your homework. Your questions tell me that your research is severely lacking.

Ralox has a reputation for blood clots. I would not recommend 10 wks of Ralox personally.

If you got gyno and testicular atrophy from a prescribed medication, your doctor who prescribed the medication should help you legitamently and legally deal with the side effects.

Edit: now that I see this is your first post, it's actually not too bad of a question. Welcome to AM

[realcheeze]

thnx for the welcome. My conditions are not that bad. The doctor told me it is common side effect, which he didnt tell me before prescribing this thing . Then said to get off this drug which didnt do much except made my body haryier, gave me gyno and shrunk my eggs a little. Im kind of tired of talkin to doctors because from what i experienced it seems all they do is prescribe drugs they know little about these days. Now im off the drug for 4 months and still have the gyno, Im not sure but i could be smaller than before. I am going to give the Ralox a try thnx4 the advice.

By the way can anyone talk about some of the other question I asked pls.

[MizXXL]

Anyone know if tenderness of the nipple is a sign of gyno?? I have been experiencing this for the past month or so, but do not have any lumps or hardening going on??

[pistonpump]

its a lump, you can feel it clearly if its gyno

[Interlocutor]

Originally Posted by celc5

Ralox has a reputation for blood clots. I would not recommend 10 wks of Ralox personally.

ahhh, the blood clot issue. now, if you read the literature carefully it seems that this risk, while pretty small, also exists for tamo (probably more so than ralo, if i interpret the data correctly). in fact, this is IMHO the main issue with tamo, not the overblown liver toxicity. if 1% of >2.000 users get blood clots in 3 years, but 0 are reported for liver issues, the hepatic issues so often focused on can't be that bad?

Tamoxifen and raloxifene are estrogenic in the liver, and they increase the liver's production of blood-clotting proteins. This results in a slight increase in the risk of stroke, particularly in women who are at high risk for these events (ie, cigarette smokers, those with a past history of blood clots). Higher levels of clotting proteins also increase the risk of blood clots in the major veins of the leg (deep vein thrombosis) and migration of such a blood clot to the lungs (pulmonary embolus). The risk may be slightly lower with raloxifene compared with tamoxifen.

both tamo and ralo should not be used if you:

-Have a history of deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism
-Require anticoagulant or blood thinning medications
-Smoke (!!!)
-Are obese
-Have severely impaired kidney function

it is thus strongly recommended to supplement with blood thinning compounds during SERM use, such as fish oil. it is also recommended to avoid blood thickening agents.

however, one must not overdramatize this. it is more a theoretical risk if you are a member of the abovementioned risk groups. otherwise, the risk of blood clots with raloxifene is similar to that associated with hormone replacement therapy (HRT) - in women, which also mostly affects high risk groups.

one may also wish to stop using this if suffering major injury or undergoing surgerery.

also, drug-drug interactions with other... items (such as AIs) MAY possibly cause half-life increases, thus indirectly inceasing effective serum levels over time.

now, all that sounds bad, right?

now, let's look at some real numbers. 7705 participants, 36+ months:
JAMA -- Reduction of Vertebral Fracture Risk in Postmenopausal Women With Osteoporosis Treated With Raloxifene: Results From a 3-Year Randomized Clinical Trial, August 18, 1999, Ettinger et al. 282 (7): 637

Venous thromboembolic events, including deep vein thrombophlebitis and pulmonary embolism, were the only serious adverse effects believed to be causally related to raloxifene treatment; by 40 months, venous thromboembolic events had been reported by 8 (0.3%), 25 (1.0%), and 24 (1.0%) of all patients in the placebo, the 60 mg of raloxifene, and the 120 mg of raloxifene groups, respectively.

other studies seem come to similar results, with an average increase of odds between 54% and 91% Effect of raloxifene therapy on venous thromboembo...[Thromb Haemost. 2008] - PubMed Result

i.e. the relative increase of the risk compared to non-users seems high at first glance, BUT the overall risk and amount of occurences is still pretty low (<1%), even with long-term treatment. we now also have to consider the duration of the trials, which usually last many months to several years, and that we have no information on the beneficial impact that supplementation with blood thinning agents (fish oil) may have, nor on the relative risk for young, healthy, athletic malse, compared to postmenopausal women. also, one must consider that it is entirely unclear how many of those affected belong to one of the abovementioned risk groups (smokers etc.). were all of those smokers? none? were all of those obese? none? unfortunately we don not have the details for the individual cases which developed problems, but if we look at the large size of the cohort, including subjects from all individual and combined risk groups, and the probably strong impact of risk factors such as smoking and obesity can we exclude that possibly almost all events occured for those with increased risk due to secondary factors anyway? and that, in fact, if you don't belong into the high-risk groups (non-smoker, non-obese), the actual risk may possibly be exceedingly small?

check also:

There were no clinically important changes in hemotologic, renal, or hepatic function laboratory, assessments.

- in ~5000 ralo users, half at high dose (120mg). seems pretty safe aside from the blood clot issue.

an interesting fact on adverse effects:

A pooled analysis of data showed that raloxifene use had to be discontinued in 11.4 percent of women compared with 12.2 percent of the women who received placebo

all-in-all, it's a risk-benfit analysis, as always. is the benfit worth the risk?

not to downplay the issue, but compared to the risk of taking methylated orals from shady chinese sources or injectables from mexican vet labs for the sake of a few lbs... i am pretty much convinced that ralo is comparatively safe. if we check 7000 users of AAS ofer 3 years, i'm pretty sure that we'd get slightly (lol) more adverse effects than 1%...

basically, if i look back at the last 2 years, i seem to remember about 1 case of feedback of blood clots possibly in conjunction with tamo use in PCT.

so far, the blood clot issue seems mostly an urban legend, based on possible misinterpretation of statistical data which may not be applicable to our target group.

T.I.

[pistonpump]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Interlocutor again

good post, nice research.

[matthew76]

How would Torem help in this situation?

[Interlocutor]

Originally Posted by pistonpump

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Interlocutor again
good post, nice research.

i may be wrong on occasion, but at least i like to roughly know what the things do that i shove down my piehole.

unfortunately, the supplement and anabolic steroids scene is abound with urban legends, rumours, fiction and wishful thinking. "someone said", "i heard that", "I've read somewhere" (and we all know: if it's on the internet, it's true!) etc. etc.

if some fat blob kiddy that compounds one fu@ked up cycle with the next and doesn't know post cycle therapy from a rubber duck provides potentially deleterious advice on public forum (not talking about here) and has the same credibility than sinner, dinoii or Dr. John, then it gets extremely diffcult for the noob (or even not-so-noob) to sieve the gold from the stones.

some people tend to hand out 3rd hand advice on compounds they have never used themselves, or even if they have used them, clearly have no understanding about them. others may know better, but have their own agenda in spreading misinformation (esp. certain company reps). add to that that the internet greatly helps to proliferate misinformation and urban legend through the copy-paste capabilities we enjoy - and i think it clearly becomes better to look up stuff oneself at the source, if possible, than blindly believing everything a random guy (like myself) spews forth on a random forum.

always consider that for everything i may say you may find 3 counterpositions if you just search long enough. and some of those may be, in fact, more valid than mine (has happened, will happen again).

switching off unfounded euphoria as well as fear, and switching on one's own brain is the best and safest route to travel, IMHO.

whenever someone on the subjects we are discussing here tells you something "as fact", try to find out the source of his position, the data from which he derived his position, the interpretation and the reasoning behind the interpretation. more often than not you'll get the usual "I've heard/read it somewhere" etc. without cross-checking yourself that's then pretty worthless information.

Originally Posted by matthew76

How would Torem help in this situation?

there is extremely little hard fact available on toremifene concerning gyno (to new on the market). it MAY be a great compound, better than anything else. or it may not. an ongoing clinical trial using toremifene to prevent morphometric vertebral fractures in men undergoing medical and/or surgical castration may provide some additional data on the effects of selective estrogen receptor modulators in men.

you may try a 6 month course of torm and achieve nothing. or you may kill your gyno after 3 months. if you try it, let us know the outcome. anecdotal data is better (vastly) than no data at all.

T.I.