"Mass Tabs", Which PCT?

**Insidious1** · 06-21-2007, 09:52 PM

Hey everyone....

Its difficult to find some straight foreward answers about PCT for this stuff. I have googled it and did a search in the forums here..... I get people saying "Novalex XT" and others saying "6 OXO"

I already have Mass Tabs... but don't plan on taking it until i have ALL the support supplements i need.

PLease don't burn me for my question or tell me to "read more". I can sift through HOURS and PAGES of stuff on this forum and others just to find arguments as to "do more research" and "this is better" than that. ....

If some people could give me some unput... i would sincerely appreciate it.

I am 23. Just cut down from 177 to 162. I am 5'9". Goal is to be 180- 185 in about 4 - 6 months. I train 5 days a week (Mon - FRi, isolating each muscle group per pay).

I eat and eat! Every 3 hours i try to consume 40 grams of protein or so. I cycle my carbs (but still keep then pretty low).

Supps i an currently on:

- Animal Pack Multi
- "ICE" BCAA Glutamine "Cocktail" (pre and post workout)
- NO-EXPLODE (Pre workout)
- USPLabs "PowerFull" (taken as directed)
- ON Whey Protein

I will be taking the above PLUS:

- "Mass Tabs" by IDS
- LiverSupport
- PCT and TestBooster?!?!?!?!?!? <--- This is where i could use unput!!!

I before i start this 4 weeks cycle.. i'd like to have EVERYTHING i need. PLEASE give some input as to what else i'll need for the cycle.

CRITIQUE AS MUCH AS YOU'D LIKE!

The G Train · 06-21-2007, 11:33 PM

Welp, i'd add alot more of supporting supplements just to be safe. Is this your first cycle?

You need a SERM as part of your PCT. Either Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Toremifene. These can be found online if you look hard enough.
Blood pressure support and cholesterol support would also be good.
Save the powerfull for PCT to recover your test. A good PCT would be: Tor. or Nov. + Powerfull + Retain2/Lean Xtreme +Activate/Jungle Wafare and your powerful. If you go jungle warfare or use an AI I'd does it inversely to the SERM as you taper it down.

If you feel like it there's always the possibility of adding 3-AD/11-oxo for greater LBM gains while keeping fat off or losing it. I say this because I would definitely increase carbs a little on cycle for better gains.

But yeah... get a SERM or dont do the cycle. Good luck!

heebs10 · 06-21-2007, 11:34 PM

IDS is a shady company, epically when it come to things such as mass tabs because they dont list the real ingredients. i dont remember what ph is in them, might be same as SD and/or PP or something along that line, not sure. but i remember people saying its strong stuff. 6oxo and navedex xt is most likely NOT sufficient. you need a real SERM for pct, something like nolvadex(different from navedex xt) also called tomoxifin is going to be much safer. thats a good place to start, try looking more into that

**Insidious1** · 06-22-2007, 07:53 PM

WOW...

FINALLY! Some answers! Thank you SOOO much!

That seems like A LOT of supporting supplements though...
I've heard this stuff if strong.... yes... but didn't think its THAT strong from what i hear. I will look more into SERM before i start the cycle.

Thank you So much! And yes... this will be my first PH cycle of any kind. I'm still wet behing the ears, folks! LOL

P.S. Why save the "PowerFull" for post cycle? I am confused as to why that is necessary. I understand why Retain2, Activate and Nolvadex are necessary. But why Also plan a liver support supplement... BUT why jungle warfare and lean Extreme...?

Won't the Nolvadex or maybe 6 OXO Extreme act similar?

And i need to read up more on "Activate"... as i am unfamiliar with what exactly it is.....

**Insidious1** · 06-22-2007, 08:14 PM

OK.... i did a little research and found out some stuff! (LOL.. see i don't ask for EVERYTHING to be spoon fed!)

Ok... apparently the Jungle Warfare is a Test booster...? So that should bring my levels somewhere back to normal...?

The "Lean Extreme" is to help with suppressing Cortisol.....

BUT, why not Nolvadex XT (which i can get at supplement shop) as compared to the regular Nolvadex....?! Potency i assume? Will The XT verson work if i use the other supps?

And FINALLY... is there any "all in one" supps?! I know Anabolic Extreme makes a lot of stuff for PCT. They even make a product called PCT, along with "Perfect Cycle" and "MassFX" (which could be used in place of Jungle Warfare, i think...)?

Sorry for so many questions... but i am doing my best to learn and understand what i am putting in my body before i do it. I think its GOOD of me that i'm not on here like "Uh OH everyone.. HELP, i just took XXX and need a PCT now" type thing. I am willing to research and learn PRIOR to taking...

Please help, and thanks for your input

**MuscleBound1337** · 06-22-2007, 09:27 PM

The reason you need Nolvadex (tamoxifen) is because it's a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) and Novedex XT is an ATD based product just like rebound xt. Some people will tell you a SERM is not needed, that if you do everything properly, ATD and other products are enough to recover. The majority of people, myself included, would say you absolutely need a SERM.

**Insidious1** · 06-22-2007, 09:33 PM

So take the SERM to be safe?!

I can i get Nolvadex.... but how is one to dose it? There are 10 and 20 mg versions...

And i assume the 4th week of the cycle (the last week), start taking it along with the start of the other stuff such as Retain and Powerfull and Jungle Warefare (or Mass FX)....?

**MuscleBound1337** · 06-22-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious1

So take the SERM to be safe?!

I can i get Nolvadex.... but how is one to dose it? There are 10 and 20 mg versions...

It's common to take the nolva 40/40/20/20 or 40/30/20/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious1

And i assume the 4th week of the cycle (the last week), start taking it along with the start of the other stuff such as Retain and Powerfull and Jungle Warefare (or Mass FX)....?

No, you start taking all of your post cycle products the day following your last MassTabs dose.

**Insidious1** · 06-22-2007, 10:29 PM

So take the SERM to be safe?!

I can i get Nolvadex.... but how is one to dose it? There are 10 and 20 mg versions...

And i assume the 4th week of the cycle (the last week), start taking it along with the start of the other stuff such as Retain and Powerfull and Jungle Warefare (or Mass FX)....?

So here is the POSSIBLE post cycle therapy i may do for this....

4 Weeks of "Mass Tabs".... Along with "Perfect Cycle" (Anabolic Xtreme) and the othre supps i had listed in 1st post.

Last day of "Mass Tabs" i''ll start my PCT and SERM the next day... to include:

- Nolvadex @ 40/30/20/10
- LeanXtreme or Retain2 (whichever is better for Cortisol Blocking)
- And Anabolic Xtreme's "PCT"

THEN.... Once i am nearing end of Nolvadex and LeanXtreme....

- Either JungleWarfare or ActivaTe... (i read its better to taper them... but i don't know why...)

THATS IT! LOL Hopefully that would be a perfect PCT and SERM for this "Mass Tabs" ... and will help me keep most of my gains...

Thoughts?

PLUS.... that means that i will be on:

- Animal Pack Multi
- "ICE" BCAA Glutamine "Cocktail" (pre and post workout)
- NO-EXPLODE (Pre workout)
- USPLabs "PowerFull" (taken as directed) (not sure WHEN to take it... either during or after the cycle of PCT...)
- ON Whey Protein
- "Mass Tabs"
- "Perfect Cycle" (which IS a liver support)

That will be for 4 weeks... Then will start the PCT and SERM, PLUS the other supps:

- Animal Pack Multi
- "ICE" BCAA Glutamine "Cocktail" (pre and post workout)
- NO-EXPLODE (Pre workout)
- USPLabs "PowerFull" (taken as directed) (????)
- ON Whey Protein
- Nolvadex 40/30/20/10 (thats 4 weeks...)
- LeanXtreme or Retain2 (whichever is better for Cortisol Blocking)
- And Anabolic Xtreme's "PCT"

THATS A WHOLE LOT!!!!!! Does is seem TOO much?!

sogone2day · 06-22-2007, 11:04 PM

Look in to anabolic innovations cycle support it has all the supporting supplements in it for liver and Blood pressure.

JW is a test booster but also has a form of methylated AI/ATD in it to control estrogen.

Nolvadex/ tamoxifien citrate can be found in research solution form just search around.

**MuscleBound1337** · 06-22-2007, 11:05 PM

That looks pretty good.

Some people would recommend you pre-load liver support and other ancillaries 2 weeks prior to cycle and continue them during PCT. I usually only preload the liver supps and then run them during the cycle.

As for the PowerFul I would save it for PCT. I havn't really used those other products you have lined up for PCT so I can't comment on them, but maybe somebody else can chime in if something looks out of order.

NAS · 06-23-2007, 06:26 PM

these were a big let down for me personally, I did gain 8lbs while on them but ended up loosing all but about 2lbs, no remarkable strength increases, pct -I used torem followed by a low dose of the sns pct stack and all support supps of course, 1/2 bottle of actavate, blue up

**Insidious1** · 06-23-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sogone2day

Look in to anabolic innovations cycle support it has all the supporting supplements in it for liver and Blood pressure.

JW is a test booster but also has a form of methylated AI/ATD in it to control estrogen.

I plan on the "Perfect Cycle" cycle support from AI.

But... if JW is a test boosted AND has a methyl in it... won't that sorta defeat the purpose of taking it?

I want my hormone levels to go back to normal and am trying to wean my body safely off the methyl... adding a supplement WITH methyl seems like an odd choice...

LOL

THIS SH** IS CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read and read and get more and more confused!!!!

And maybe i should go with Torem INSTEAD of Nolva if i have the capability of getting it....?

**Zombie** · 06-24-2007, 08:29 PM

listen to sogone2day AI Cycle support is going to avoid taking a ****load of pill, since it has liver protection(milkthistle extract), blood preasure(hawthorn berry), prostate support(saw palmento) cholesterol support(read yeast rice) and nettle root among others you cant go wrong with Cycle support. And if you can preload it atleast 1 week before your cycle and also use it on pct and if you can run it even longer its even better for you.

And you really need a SERm with something with this im not a fan of gaspari i would rather another ATD/AI like hyperdrol x2, rebound realoaded. woulnt run And AI with a SERM along side i would save the AI/ATD for PCT. If you have the cash get toremifene since its less liver toxic than tamoxifen, but if you cant tamoxifen its ok.

And i would recommend that while on cycle you take out NO-Xplode since it can raise your blood preassure, and you should avoid to take things that might raise your BP while "ON". save it for PCT or the second week of PCT

**Insidious1** · 06-24-2007, 09:26 PM

OK.... So here is the deal....

I start the cycle tomorrow.... I will be buying supporting supps tonight and wil be here in two days....

I have ordered: (That takes care of my SERM)

Liquid Nolvadex

I am ABOUT to order (for post cycle therapy):

Cycle Support (as my liver protectant)

Anabolic Xtreme's Mass Stack, which includes "MassFX, Retain2, and HyperdrolX2". (thank for the PM suggestion!!!)???? <---- good PCT combo? ALSO.. will i need AnabolicXtreme's PCT if i am taking the above?

That should take care of my PCT and SERM needs correct?

And i assume, take them "as directed" and taper the SERM 40/30/20/10...?

**yeahright** · 06-24-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious1

OK.... So here is the deal....

I start the cycle tomorrow.... I will be buying supporting supps tonight and wil be here in two days....

I have ordered: (That takes care of my SERM)

Liquid Nolvadex

I am ABOUT to order (for post cycle therapy):

Cycle Support (as my liver protectant)

Anabolic Xtreme's Mass Stack, which includes "MassFX, Retain2, and HyperdrolX2". (thank for the PM suggestion!!!)???? <---- good post cycle therapy combo? ALSO.. will i need AnabolicXtreme's post cycle therapy if i am taking the above?

That should take care of my PCT and SERM needs correct?

And i assume, take them "as directed" and taper the SERM 40/30/20/10...?

A couple things:

It's never a good idea to start a cycle until you have your PCT products in hand. You never know what can happen especially with the purchase of grey market products.

Second, you need to take the cycle support DURING your cycle. You can also take it during PCT but its primary function is to protect your body while ON cycle (lowers blood pressure, keeps lipids from getting too far out of whack, blocks dht to some extent).

The AX post cycle therapy product would be redundant.