PH Post Cycle Help with SERM

Eagleman003

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This is my second cycle of 1ad/4ad. The first one i PCT with 6-OXO and was fine.

1-AD @ 400mg
4-AD @ 400mg Transdermal

30 Day Length (4 Weeks)

I was going to use a test booster, liver support and Nolva at 40/40/20/20 but do i really need nolva?

Also I have been pmed a bunch of sites that sell but most of them are in liquid form and i need oral pills.
 

Eagleman003

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Well what other options do I have. Buy Pills and place the Nolva in the pills (Kinda Hard) or take the liquid straight up which prob woudl taste disgusting and be hard to measure the exact amount.
 

PumpingIron

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Use and oral baby syringe...you can find them at the supermarket...

They make dosing easy as hell...


The only way to combat the tast is to wash it back with some strong drink, i.e. grapefruit, cranberry or oj...

OR

using the baby syringe and some extra thick gel caps, load a certain amount per cap (such as 20mgs) and dose accordingly...


The reason you can find the liquid is becuase it's a research chemical. All SERMs are by script only so either blackmarket or research sites are the way to go...
 

Eagleman003

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I'm kinda leaning not towards going on a SERM PCT becuase im only doing a 30 day cycle of Ph's.

1-AD 400mg a day
4-AD 400mg a day Transdermal

What other options do i have, if any?
 

PumpingIron

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I'm staying out of this.

Use the search option.
 
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Most PH cycles are only 30 days and everyone will tell you to use a SERM. Just man up and drink the Nolva with some OJ, your body will thank you for it in the end.

why are so many peopel asking q's about SERMs lately then not listening to peoples responses...............
 

PumpingIron

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Most PH cycles are only 30 days and everyone will tell you to use a SERM. Just man up and drink the Nolva with some OJ, your body will thank you for it in the end.

why are so many peopel asking q's about SERMs lately then not listening to peoples responses...............

They can get the gear easily but can't find the SERMs...plus a lot of bad advice has been going around the boards recently.
 
lennoxchi

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Most PH cycles are only 30 days and everyone will tell you to use a SERM. Just man up and drink the Nolva with some OJ, your body will thank you for it in the end.

why are so many peopel asking q's about SERMs lately then not listening to peoples responses...............
BUMP!!! dude always use a SERM as stated above "it does a body good" (should put that on a t-shirt) there's lots of reasons not only not wanting to look like Meatloaf in Fight Club....advise:gotsearch it's been covered alot here in the past....take some time.
 

Eagleman003

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Ok Nolva it is @ 40mg/40mg/20mg/20mg (4 weeks).

USP TAMOXIFEN CITRATE
(AQUEOUS SOLUTION)
20MG/ML - 60ML VIAL $30.00

This is what I am going to order. So 2ML = 40mg of Nolva, correct?

28 ML = The Amount of servings for 2 full weeks (14 Days x 2ML)

14 ML = The Amount of servings for the 2nd 2 full weeks ( 14 Days x 1 ML)

42 ML = The Amount of servings for my 4 week post cycle therapy

So if there's 60 ML in the bottle then I am good, correct? Just double check my math so I know the right amount to order lol.

And im going to get a baby syringe for oral dosing and take the dose in its full amount at one time in the late evening with a strong drink to wash it down, correct?

Also what brand name liver support is good for my PCT and are there any other test boosters I should be taking. I have some left over 6-oxo maybe 1 bottle's worth, could I use that too at a low dose?
 

PumpingIron

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42 ML...perfect...plus waste...you'll get just over 1 PCT per bottle.

screw liver support...get some all around support and take cycle support.
 
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yeah Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support....you can't go wrong with that.
 

r6samson

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General question here: Why do people still take Nolva instead of Toremifene Citrate instead?


JP
 
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General question here: Why do people still take Nolva instead of Toremifene Citrate instead?


JP
Price is a factor id say. Nolva is most likely more readily available compared to torm. I know it is for me living in the UK.
 

Eagleman003

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many people are telling me that the other form of nolva is less toxic but hasnt been tested throughly. I can get both by the way
 

r6samson

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Absolutely. My freind ran Nolva and planned on it again, but the I told him he may want to look into the Toremifene Citrate instead as an alternative. That article is a little scary in the sense you can't really see the immediate damage.


To the OP, Toremifene may be better and less toxic; HOWEVER, I have no expierence so wait for a response from a more knowledgable source.


JP
 
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yes mr 19 yr old keep away :whip:
 

r6samson

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yes mr 19 yr old keep away :whip:
Truth is......I feel I can be honest without getting flamed on. The age thing bothers me alot. I have no personal use of AAS, but I have knowlege about it. I feel some people on here get on the soapbox after they hit 21 and ran a cycle then assume they know more than someone who is younger which is ignorant, but whatever.


One buddy is turning 21 in under a month so does this mean he can all of a sudden be a an AAS user? I feel many on this site would say yes indirectly, but I feel as if age is the dumbest reliance to go by. With that said I know I have alot of juice left in the tank before AAS are needed and may never even touch them ever, but I feel the people assume they're granted a special "privelage" as soon as they reach 21 as though 3 months ago they're completly different regardless of training/diet.


JP
 

PumpingIron

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Smart kid ^...some younger guys should listen to what he just said.
 

Eagleman003

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So whast the verdict on the Nolva? Should i get the other stuff which is "safer" or should i just go the most popular route and take nolva?
 

PumpingIron

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the basic verdict is it is up to you.

torem seems to be less heptoxic and works, but nolva is more tried and true...
 

PumpingIron

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Anytime...but a lot of knowledge comes from first hand experience as well.

You can learn all you want from a book, but experiences will win hands down, IMO.

Plus the way you react to something might be completely different than the way I react.

I think you have a good viewpoint and no one should jump down your throat about your knowledge on anything, but I do think there is more to knowledge than what you've read.

I will jump down your throat, however, if you start using AAS before your body is fully mature and you have yet to reach your physical limits naturally...
 

r6samson

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Anytime...but a lot of knowledge comes from first hand experience as well.

You can learn all you want from a book, but experiences will win hands down, IMO.

Plus the way you react to something might be completely different than the way I react.

I think you have a good viewpoint and no one should jump down your throat about your knowledge on anything, but I do think there is more to knowledge than what you've read.

I will jump down your throat, however, if you start using anabolic steroids before your body is fully mature and you have yet to reach your physical limits naturally...
I agree, expierence > knowledge, but knowledge isn't worthless. I take it you saw the thread I got flamed on in the Supplement Review/Log over 1-AD the way you respond. Fact is I love drugs, hence my major: Pharmacy. I just love reading about this stuff and how the body reacts.

As far as jumping down my throat; as you should.....;)


JP
 

Strategic

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BUMP!!! dude always use a SERM as stated above "it does a body good" (should put that on a t-shirt) there's lots of reasons not only not wanting to look like Meatloaf in Fight Club....advise:gotsearch it's been covered alot here in the past....take some time.


Both statements are untrue. For some PH cycles, using a serm is NOT necessary. This guys cycle is a perfect example. 1ad/4ad for 30 days at those doses will not cause gyno or shut down test levels to the point where a serm is needed. Before the prohormone ban, 1ad/4ad was the most popular ph cycle by far and I never heard of anyone using nolva or clomid for pct. Most people (including myself) used 6oxo, e-form, tribulus, etc. with no problems at all. 1ad/4ad is not the same as using superdrol or any of these new dirty methyls.


Also, serms DONT "do your body good." Nolva is actually terrible for your body. 4 weeks on nolva is more dangerous than 4 weeks on 1ad/4ad.


To the original poster, you said you used 6oxo last time after this same cycle. If it went fine, stick to the same pct. You don't need nolva or any serm for your cycle.
 

PumpingIron

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I thought this subject was through.

Strategic, you need to read around a little more.
 

Strategic

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I thought this subject was through.

Strategic, you need to read around a little more.

I'm basing my opinion on actual experience with PHs and pct. You, on the other hand, were too young to use phs before they were banned.

But go ahead and tell people what kind of pct they need for prohormones. Just make sure they know your advice is based on second hand reading, not first hand experience.
 

Eagleman003

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Well now im basically tied in a knot. I'm around 5 days away from starting my cycle. I have not bought Nolvadex yet but know where i am going to get it from and was going to order the day i started my cycle. In regards to Strategic's comments I agree with him for the following reasons. 1-AD has pratically NO conversion to estrogen and is not toxic to the liver! LGP-4AD+ has a methly compound in it but it is very limited and this product is also not that liver toxic although it does convert into estrogen. The reason for me taking Nolva would be to BLOCK the effects of estrogen on my body. Since the main compound i am using is 1-AD i dont think i will have that much estrogen build up. Nolvadex will KILL my liver and is really used to treat the breast cancer in women. I read online that you can suffer strokes from it and actualyl develop cancer in the body. I could see taking Nolvadex if I was going on an AAS cycle of 8-12 weeks but im using good old 1-ad/4-ad.

Last time i took 6-oxo when i did this cycle and everything went fine when i came off. I didn't lose pratically ANY strength and i prob lost about 2 pounds of BW. ALTHOUGH, this was my first and only cycle i have done so far and i do remember gaining some fat post cycle and i remember my libido was shot for around 2 months after. I need some big ****ing help lol.

I know that 6-oxo is now NOT my best option because there are MANY other PCT's. So lets compare Nolvadex to another otc PCT option.

BTW is it possible to run a really low dose of Nolvadex and an otc pct to get the best of both worlds lol?

Anyway, i need lots of help as you can see because this is the last cycle i will do in my life and it means a lot to me to get everything right.
 

PumpingIron

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I'm basing my opinion on actual experience with PHs and post cycle therapy. You, on the other hand, were too young to use phs before they were banned.

But go ahead and tell people what kind of post cycle therapy they need for prohormones. Just make sure they know your advice is based on second hand reading, not first hand experience.
wow, that really shows your ignorance.
 

Eagleman003

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wow, that really shows your ignorance.
This isn't going to help me make my decision. Nolvadex is HORRIBLE for your body and is ten times worse for my body then the 1ad/4ad cycle. What other options do i have for pct and can i run nolva really low with an otc pct
 
Menacer

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This isn't going to help me make my decision. Nolvadex is HORRIBLE for your body and is ten times worse for my body then the 1ad/4ad cycle. What other options do i have for post cycle therapy and can i run nolva really low with an otc post cycle therapy
Back on the “bandwagon”. Where did you find the info about Nolva (used responsibly) being 10x worse for your body than a month of 1ad/4ad?
 

Eagleman003

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Nolva is severly toxic to the liver and is used to treat cancer. Its a way more powerfull and dangerous drug then 1ad and 4ad. I was just overstating my opinion and being dramatic for the added effect haha... I just feel like PCT is suppose to make my body healthier when going on nolva is worse then my actual cycle
 
RisingAgainst

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Well now im basically tied in a knot. I'm around 5 days away from starting my cycle. I have not bought Nolvadex yet but know where i am going to get it from and was going to order the day i started my cycle. In regards to Strategic's comments I agree with him for the following reasons. 1-AD has pratically NO conversion to estrogen and is not toxic to the liver! LGP-4AD+ has a methly compound in it but it is very limited and this product is also not that liver toxic although it does convert into estrogen. The reason for me taking Nolva would be to BLOCK the effects of estrogen on my body. Since the main compound i am using is 1-AD i dont think i will have that much estrogen build up. Nolvadex will KILL my liver and is really used to treat the breast cancer in women. I read online that you can suffer strokes from it and actualyl develop cancer in the body. I could see taking Nolvadex if I was going on an anabolic steroids cycle of 8-12 weeks but im using good old 1-ad/4-ad.

Last time i took 6-oxo when i did this cycle and everything went fine when i came off. I didn't lose pratically ANY strength and i prob lost about 2 pounds of BW. ALTHOUGH, this was my first and only cycle i have done so far and i do remember gaining some fat post cycle and i remember my libido was shot for around 2 months after. I need some big ****ing help lol.

I know that 6-oxo is now NOT my best option because there are MANY other post cycle therapy's. So lets compare Nolvadex to another otc PCT option.

BTW is it possible to run a really low dose of Nolvadex and an otc post cycle therapy to get the best of both worlds lol?

Anyway, i need lots of help as you can see because this is the last cycle i will do in my life and it means a lot to me to get everything right.
Welll.... amazingly enough, I'm in support of PI and Menacer here... obviously you dont quite know WHY they're needed... The point isnt about estrogen conversion... its about EXOGENOUS TEST SHUTTING DOWN THE HPTA.... please bro... don't use these unless you at least have general IDEA what the f*** they do! If you would really like, since this is your 'last cycle' and all, I would say run the usual OTC PCT with a SERM (preferably raloxifene or toremifine...) and be happy... Running both is the 'BEST' way to do it IMO, but not always necessary. IMHO.. I say skip the cycle, skip the advice, and just chill for a few months reading as MUCH info as possible and coming to your own conclusions based on your research, then double check em with the board members... If I was out of line in your opinion, I'm sorry, I'm just stating my opinion, your first paragraph really, truelly disappointed and pissed me off.
 
RisingAgainst

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I'm basing my opinion on actual experience with PHs and post cycle therapy. You, on the other hand, were too young to use phs before they were banned.

But go ahead and tell people what kind of post cycle therapy they need for prohormones. Just make sure they know your advice is based on second hand reading, not first hand experience.
These compounds were actually very suppressive, especially when stacked... the kicker: the libido effects from 4-ad were a FALSE indicator of shutdown not occuring, in fact, you were more suppressed! FYI, just cuz your d*ck works, doesn't mean you nuts do!
 
RisingAgainst

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Back on the “bandwagon”. Where did you find the info about Nolva (used responsibly) being 10x worse for your body than a month of 1ad/4ad?
I can also partially agree with this, but I also think that Nolvadex is the WORST possible SERM available to the world... The hepatoxicity is no joke, the HGH level reductions are no joke, and overall, with Raloxifine and Toremifine available, why bother? The 10X worse thing is also a joke... have you ever seen bloodwork after a rough cycle?? lol MUCH worse than what Nolva will do to you.
 
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Eagleman003 you need to get yourself educated on what it is you are doing. As long as yuo rely on these sort of threads for your information you will never get the facts straight. Yup. Nolvadex is hepatoxic. So is tylenol. When taken responsibly for short periods they are harmless. There are other SERM's to chose from that are more favorable. But at the end of the day if you listen to every opinion you will never get yourself educated. If you have no clue regarding any of this, as it certainly sounds, then you should not be doing any of this.
 

PumpingIron

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Just shut up and go take your Clomid.
Again, proving the point that age does not always show maturity. Thank you.

But if you truly want to get into the logistics of things, I will be 24 in a month and a half and I have been putting my time in the gym for a little over 8 years and even before that I was lifting in sport specific programs throught Jr. and Sr High school.

I've been self educating myself though since I was a freshman in college. But I digress, you know more than I do. I don't know what I was thinking, suggesting tried and true methods of post cycle therapy for a hormonal compound, or two even? I guess research means nothing, and the fact that I have used other similar compounds in my time.

But wait, what am I saying? Let's chalk it up to the 1-2 years of time you had than me on earth. Like I said, I don't know what I was thinking...
 
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Again, proving the point that age does not always show maturity. Thank you.

But if you truly want to get into the logistics of things, I will be 24 in a month and a half and I have been putting my time in the gym for a little over 8 years and even before that I was lifting in sport specific programs throught Jr. and Sr High school.

I've been self educating myself though since I was a freshman in college. But I digress, you know more than I do. I don't know what I was thinking, suggesting tried and true methods of post cycle therapy for a hormonal compound, or two even? I guess research means nothing, and the fact that I have used other similar compounds in my time.

But wait, what am I saying? Let's chalk it up to the 1-2 years of time you had than me on earth. Like I said, I don't know what I was thinking...
:clap2: well said PI.
 

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Again, proving the point that age does not always show maturity. Thank you.

But if you truly want to get into the logistics of things, I will be 24 in a month and a half and I have been putting my time in the gym for a little over 8 years and even before that I was lifting in sport specific programs throught Jr. and Sr High school.

I've been self educating myself though since I was a freshman in college. But I digress, you know more than I do. I don't know what I was thinking, suggesting tried and true methods of post cycle therapy for a hormonal compound, or two even? I guess research means nothing, and the fact that I have used other similar compounds in my time.

But wait, what am I saying? Let's chalk it up to the 1-2 years of time you had than me on earth. Like I said, I don't know what I was thinking...


At least you followed my advice about the clomid.
 

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And btw, eagleman, you didn't state in your original post that you were gonna be taking M4AD. That's quite different from regular transdermal 4ad. You should definitly read up on methylated compounds before you use one.
 

Eagleman003

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I am kinda reluctant to try anything else but an OTC or Nolva because nolva has been tested and is used much more often. Even though it is liver toxic I am only doing this cycle one time and my ph cycle itself is not that long. I am going to be taking cycle support during PCT as well.
 
RisingAgainst

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I am kinda reluctant to try anything else but an OTC or Nolva because nolva has been tested and is used much more often. Even though it is liver toxic I am only doing this cycle one time and my ph cycle itself is not that long. I am going to be taking cycle support during post cycle therapy as well.
It would do you good to consider using SAMe during your PCT then.
 

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