[Mannypolarbear]

Nice ****ing post!

[Cub]

Originally Posted by Shakka1975

jesus christ almighty.... this is some confusing crap atleast for me...

Ok this is for all of us who want to know what OTC pct supps are out and are supposed to "act/work" as what a SERM does. Lets say some1 is on a epistane/havoc cycle? So what "OTC" pct supps should be taken together after a havoc cycle and what would most likely be a correct dose for each? This may put a halt to the otc pct questions.

I my self will be taking for pct here soon... This was what some1 advised me to take and this is what he took and came out fine but everyone is different.

Inhibit-e (which is an atd) 2/2/1/1 every other day
post cycle support 4/4/4/4
Activate extreme 4/4/4/4

my havoc cycle is 20/20/30/30
(2caps for 2 weeks and 3 caps the next 2 weeks...)

Supporting Supps
cissus
cycle support 2 scoops 12hrs apart thru-out the cycle/pct
Tarine (sp)

I don't understand why people find it necessary to take so many products for a PCT.

[ajensen11]

Originally Posted by Cub

I don't understand why people find it necessary to take so many products for a PCT.

What do you take?

You dont find it necessary to use a SERM, AI and cortisol blocker?
(Even though the guy isnt using a SERM for his OTC PCT)

Im just kind of iffy about using ATD after getting delayed gyno off of PP. So I am going to try transdermal Formestane on my next PCT for Havoc in a few weeks, along with Torem and Retain2.

Or is that overkill as well?

[atnartist]

the estrogen levels are high for two reasons, one is because of the armotization and the other is because of the high test levels your body has to find its eqiulibreum. That is great because it works to our advantage when you finish a cycle of ph or steroids. By using a serm, (toremifene is what I like to use) it only blocks the unwanted estrogen that will cause the gyno and leaves the other estrogen so that it helps your body kick start your own test production because once again your body is trying to find it's equilibreum. It's all outlined at the beginning of this thread. Also, by not using a serm and even if you don't get gyno your body has all this estrogen and NO testosterone to match until your body gets itself straitened out and that will cause you to lose the muscle that you have gained while on your cycle. You should try and follow the directions completely and then make an asessment of how it works for you. I love the results I have gotten w/phs and a serm. I don't think I will use an AI again or if I do it will be at the end of a pcs. Remember when you use something to lower your estrogen and raise your test when you stop your test levels will go down and estrogen levels come up so your body can find it's place again.

[Force of Green]

Originally Posted by ajensen11

What do you take?

You dont find it necessary to use a SERM, AI and cortisol blocker?
(Even though the guy isnt using a SERM for his OTC PCT)

Im just kind of iffy about using ATD after getting delayed gyno off of PP. So I am going to try transdermal Formestane on my next PCT for Havoc in a few weeks, along with Torem and Retain2.

Or is that overkill as well?

I think the only necessary thing (supplement wise) for PCT is a good SERM. The best cortisol blocker is food. Protein and carbs blunt cortisol.

Fear is the cause of massive PCT arsenals. If you're so afraid of getting gyno or losing most of your gains after the cycle, the solution is: Don't use steroids.

A good SERM like toremifene or a trans-res product like Post Cycle Support and a good strategy for diet modification is all that's needed for PCT.

[ajensen11]

Well SERM for sure in a PCT, but what about when you come off of it? Your body has increased your test but will estrogen still be higher? Since the test that your body creates will be aromatized into estrogen because of the increased amount of aromatase.

Also, using an AI by itself increases test, so wouldnt that help jump starting your natural test production along with the SERM?

People's issue about not using an AI right off the bat in a PCT is that there is no test to aromatize. But there is an increased amount of aromatase, which will act on what little amounts of test get produced.

Please let me know if I am wrong and confused, cause it feels that way...

[ajensen11]

Originally Posted by Force of Green

If you're so afraid of getting gyno or losing most of your gains after the cycle, the solution is: Don't use steroids.

Wow, thanks.

Maybe I should do that in the rest of life as well.

F*** trying to solve a problem, I should just stop doing what caused it. My boss will love that one.

[atnartist]

by using an AI you keep the estrogen and test levels down, sure you can get some natural testosterone from this but it's not much, again your body is trying to find it's correct levels again with each other, it will find them with the ai but like I said the levels will be low, if you can keep the levels high by letting your body keep the estrogen while using a test booster it becomes a win win situation, pct doesn't have to be bad, I have continued to have good mass gains while on the pct, that speaks much louder than words to me. I am currently at 213 lbs and 16.5 bf and 5'8 in height.
After this month of pct I will be cutting for fifteen weeks. Like I said before, follow the directions given by someone with experience, learn about and study the pro's and cons of the things you will be taking and document all of your cycle, before, during and after including your diet, sleep habits and everything. Don't do it half ass, unless of course being half ass is all your looking for. I am looking for number one, no one runs a race looking for anything but first place.

[Force of Green]

Originally Posted by ajensen11

Wow, thanks.

Maybe I should do that in the rest of life as well.

F*** trying to solve a problem, I should just stop doing what caused it. My boss will love that one.

The statement was an opinion not directed at you persay, but for certain individuals who have the fear of God put into them about the possibility of gyno.

And yes, wouldn't it be better to stop the action that causes the problem? Why make a problem just to try and fix it? lol

Then again, if you want to take the advice on 'how not to get steroid-cessation induced ***** tits' into every aspect of your life, you've got a new religion here.

[Force of Green]

Ajensen, don't apply a b*tch titties disclaimer to every aspect of your life man... come on.

[Shakka1975]

i understand what yall are saying (Force of Green and Atnartist) but my post was for the people who will not be using a SERM like myself and want to know what otc pct products are out there that are "SUPPOSE" to simulate what a SERM would do even if it isnt in comparison to the SERM. It may stop all the same questions about otc pct's.

[Force of Green]

Originally Posted by Shakka1975

i understand what yall are saying (Force of Green and Atnartist) but my post was for the people who will not be using a SERM like myself and want to know what otc pct products are out there that are "SUPPOSE" to simulate what a SERM would do even if it isnt in comparison to the SERM. It may stop all the same questions about otc pct's.

Post Cycle Support and Stoked (both the same, by Anabolic Innovations) IS A SERM product and it's over the counter. 6-oxo Extreme has a SERM in it as well. Dermacrine Sustain is a SERM too...

transresveratrol.

[Force of Green]

Some crazy ba$tards rubbed Dermacrine Sustain on their balls and got GREAT results after a cycle.

[Shakka1975]

lol maybe he though it would make him larger?? hehe

[ajensen11]

So everyone is saying we want estrogen in PCT, but how much is too much? Is it correct in saying the higher the estrogen the higher your test will become in order to reach equilibrium?

Does prolactin play apart in anyone's PCT, or on cycle? Since prolactin is fuel to estrogens fire of creating or aggreviating gyno.

Yeah, I came back to gyno. It's hard to rid your mind of when you always see it, especially when wearing t-shirts(hard nips)