No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

[thesinner]

hey the sinner, is your name jordan?

No, but I do like Hanes undergarments, Big Mac's, Nike Shoes, and Gatorade

[DaBulls]

ah, just wondering because the post you started this thread with is an article by jordan blackburn: http://ezinearticles.com/?Stupid-Peo...rapy&id=607333 and i was gonna say i liked your other stuff.

[pcn]

Damn! Just when I was impressed and about to try this rep thing.

So, secret identity or plagiarizer?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[greenwing7]

thankx for the info

[thesinner]

ah, just wondering because the post you started this thread with is an article by jordan blackburn: You are blocked from accessing EzineArticles.com and i was gonna say i liked your other stuff.

Jordan is the owner of *************, who sometimes posts here under the username, ********. This article hasn't beome a sticky on this board, but it did on his.

http://www.*************/forum/showth...-80/index.html

I'll PM him, and let him know somebody got their facts screwed up.

[pcn]

Jordan is the owner of *************, who sometimes posts here under the username, ********. This article hasn't beome a sticky on this board, but it did on his.

http://www.*************/forum/showth...-80/index.html

I'll PM him, and let him know somebody got their facts screwed up.

Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.

[greenwing7]

Google is a godsend. I think I've said more than enough on this topic.


Neither a SERM, nor a post cycle therapy protocol are "necessary" but are both a very good and very recommended idea. Personally, I would not run a cycle without using a SERM.

so if a person doesn't have a tendancy towards gyeno do they not need a SERM, or are there other reasons to include a SERM in post-cycle? you say that a SERM is used to block the nazty effects of E as your hormones return to normal, included from what I have read are gyeno, and water retention, can you go over some more?

[thesinner]

so if a person doesn't have a tendancy towards gyeno do they not need a SERM, or are there other reasons to include a SERM in post-cycle? you say that a SERM is used to block the nazty effects of E as your hormones return to normal, included from what I have read are gyeno, and water retention, can you go over some more?

Though a SERM does a great job of blocking the nasty side effects associated with way too much estrogen, it's main purpose in post cycle therapy is to speed up recovery of natural hormone balance. It will prevent gyno, unshrink your nuts, and even help better your cholesterol (which is going to be all of of whack by this point).

When I said that it is not necessary, what I mean is that your body will eventually come back to natural hormone balance, but it will take a lot longer. This means that you have low test levels for a longer period of time, which is going to make it harder to maintain muscle gains.

[3PeteNC]

On that note do you have an idea of how long it would take to recover without using a SERM, because I'm pretty sure they weren't around back in the days of arnold and franco yet they stayed massive, so I always wondered how long it takes your body to get back to equilibrium norms

[thesinner]

On that note do you have an idea of how long it would take to recover without using a SERM, because I'm pretty sure they weren't around back in the days of arnold and franco yet they stayed massive, so I always wondered how long it takes your body to get back to equilibrium norms

It truly depends on the user, the compound, cycle length, and dosages.

[3PeteNC]

yea I thought about that, but when a person is shutdown from a dbol 6 weeker and another from a prop 12 weeker shouldn't it be somewhat the same, because both are producing the same amout of test, 0

[thesinner]

yea I thought about that, but when a person is shutdown from a dbol 6 weeker and another from a prop 12 weeker shouldn't it be somewhat the same, because both are producing the same amout of test, 0

It's still gonna depend on the user. Some people will "bounce back" faster than others.

Another thing to point out is your mention of Arnold and Franco. Sure they never used PCT and were huge, but do we really know how they looked when they were "off cycle"? Seeing pictures of professional bodybuilders sets somewhat of a bias because there's pretty much only pics of them while in their prime. (Take a look at Lee Priest's off-season fatass for example)

[Vordhosbn]

Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:
Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that).

A + B --------> C

So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will increase. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will decrease. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will increase. Still with me here? Good.

Question: So what happens to your test levels when taking an AI, like Letro?

[MEH89]

Wow, now I know what it feels like to have a really good understanding of PCT, and how it works. Thanks

[Travis]

Yeah, this is a sweet post. BUT now I have like 50 more questions coming....uno momento....

[Travis]

Okay a few questions on this:

1. If its a constant hormonal balance, what increases/decreases if you are using a cortisol reducer ON cycle? Estrogen? Test? Other hormones?

2. Is a cortisol reducer a bad idea ON cycle?

I'll start with those...

[thesinner]

Okay a few questions on this:

1. If its a constant hormonal balance, what increases/decreases if you are using a cortisol reducer ON cycle? Estrogen? Test? Other hormones?

2. Is a cortisol reducer a bad idea ON cycle?

I'll start with those...

1) Yes. This pretty much effects all your steroid hormones. to varying degrees. 7-keto and metabolites have a slight anti-estrogenic effect.

2) Not a bad idea at all. In fact some compounds (11-oxo, Dianabol, and Deca for example) actually block/reduce cortisol.

[thesinner]

Question: So what happens to your test levels when taking an AI, like Letro?

Testosterone + Aromatase = Estrogen

So if we reduce how much aromatase there is to react with testosterone.............what do you think happens?

[Travis]

So if you are taking an exogenous form of test does your body immediately stop producing it naturally? So your natural test level is actually zero? Or would you still be producing some form of natural test?

I assume this is dependent on the time, dosage, etc? This is basically your level of shutdown correct?

[thesinner]

So if you are taking an exogenous form of test does your body immediately stop producing it naturally? So your natural test level is actually zero? Or would you still be producing some form of natural test?

I assume this is dependent on the time, dosage, etc? This is basically your level of shutdown correct?

"Technically" zero is an asymptote, so your test levels will only approach zero.

Your natural test levels decrease as the exogeneous levels begin taking its place in various biochemical reactions. Then we factor in a fun word called "reaction rate" and yeah, it's not always instantaneous. Shutdown is dependent on compound, dosage, and time.

You're throwin' out some tough Q's there Travis. I'll try my best to answer them, just remember that I'm not the guy with ALL the answers.