No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

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  1. Great Read!!!


  2. Quote Originally Posted by chico1 View Post
    I am new to AM so forgive me if this is an obvious question but..do these rules apply exactly the same to PHs as they do to AAS? Because I have been researching my first cycle for months (hdrol) and everyone has been telling me ontop of a SERM, the next most important thing is a natural test booster and that an AI or Cortisol Blocker isn't needed. Please someone elaborate?
    It wouldn't be a bad idea to try erase and daa together before you go adding it to your PCT for Hdrol. That way if you have a bad reaction, like explosive diarrhea (possible daa side effect) and joint pain (possible AI side effect), you won't be cycling off a PH when this happens. If you can't eat right or workout during your PCT you will loose your gains.

    There are more than a few logs on daa + erase on here you might want to check out. It's kinda sketchy to take a bunch of stuff all at once and not know how the individual chemicals are going to effect you.

    Whatever route you choose, don't neglect a SERM when cycling off a PH or AAS.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
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  3. This was some good information. Maybe I'm one of them "stupid people" but thanks for putting this out there.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post

    It wouldn't be a bad idea to try erase and daa together before you go adding it to your PCT for Hdrol. That way if you have a bad reaction, like explosive diarrhea (possible daa side effect) and joint pain (possible AI side effect), you won't be cycling off a PH when this happens. If you can't eat right or workout during your PCT you will loose your gains.

    There are more than a few logs on daa + erase on here you might want to check out. It's kinda sketchy to take a bunch of stuff all at once and not know how the individual chemicals are going to effect you.

    Whatever route you choose, don't neglect a SERM when cycling off a PH or AAS.
    What about caber and arimadex adding to a PCT of nolva after getting off and AI (deca) and test cycle? Is that beneficial?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by badnews09 View Post
    What about caber and arimadex adding to a PCT of nolva after getting off and AI (deca) and test cycle? Is that beneficial?
    What's your question? Deca is not an AI. Do you have gyno? I use caber at .25mg twice a week (days I pin) with deca from start of cycle until the end of pct; arimidex at .5mg EOD with test from the beginning of cycle until the end of PCT. Look up prolactin gyno if you have symptoms. Nolva is not as good as other PCT drugs out there for restarting your nuts, that's why people take clomid along with nolva. You could try switching to, or adding clomid if having issues restarting. I'm mid cycle ATM but will be trying torem (I've heard good things, but no personal experience yet) for the first time when I PCT, but I still have clomid on hand if needed.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    What's your question? Deca is not an AI. Do you have gyno? I use caber at .25mg twice a week (days I pin) with deca from start of cycle until the end of pct; arimidex at .5mg EOD with test from the beginning of cycle until the end of PCT. Look up prolactin gyno if you have symptoms. Nolva is not as good as other PCT drugs out there for restarting your nuts, that's why people take clomid along with nolva. You could try switching to, or adding clomid if having issues restarting. I'm mid cycle ATM but will be trying torem (I've heard good things, but no personal experience yet) for the first time when I PCT, but I still have clomid on hand if needed.
    Slappy is correct in that if you go the route you're taking, dopamine (antiprolactin hormone) is your best friend and can/will take care of most issues at that dose and will provide some relieve for some of the lethargy that many experience. I recommend FOCUS by AndroFactory, as it is VERY powerful and can modulate important hormones as needed in the body.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  7. If you take halovar 50/50/75/75/75/75
    6 week cycle when would start taking recycle? Would it be the after last day of halo or 5th week?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Brown Bastard View Post
    If you take halovar 50/50/75/75/75/75
    6 week cycle when would start taking recycle? Would it be the after last day of halo or 5th week?
    Recycle looks solid. I like the ingredient matrix, but the page I looked at had an error loading the picture with the supp facts, so I don't know how much is in there and of what, but it looks good. I would start it on THE last day of halo, but that's just my opinion.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Brown Bastard View Post
    If you take halovar 50/50/75/75/75/75
    6 week cycle when would start taking recycle? Would it be the after last day of halo or 5th week?
    you start PCT the day after your last dose of Halovar. hope you're not relying solely on Recycle for you PCT though!

  10. What else should I add to my pct? I haven't started a cycle yet. I'm trying to get as much info as I can first
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by delsolrob View Post
    you start PCT the day after your last dose of Halovar. hope you're not relying solely on Recycle for you PCT though!
    What else should be included in my pct, id appreciate the info

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Brown Bastard View Post
    What else should be included in my pct, id appreciate the info
    dude, for real?!?!

    page 1 of the thread you are posting in.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
  13. Should have read the thread before


    I purchased a bottle of toremifene after a 8 week test prop cycle of 100/eod. I was told to use toremifene at 60/40/40/20 which if I had done my research is obviously bogus. I am very worried and am 12 days into the post cycle. What should I do just start the pct at 120/80/60/40, go get a blood test, or buy novadex or another compound and start the pct completely over. Help would be great! Am I looking at long term damage? Iv been freaking myself out all day ...

  14. What I would do, since Tamoxifen is easy to buy where I live, is go get Tamoxifen and do it 60 -30 -20 - 20. Also, keep taking Rev PCT.Any side effects so far?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by FranARG View Post
    What I would do, since Tamoxifen is easy to buy where I live, is go get Tamoxifen and do it 60 -30 -20 - 20. Also, keep taking Rev PCT.Any side effects so far?
    I would like to hear YOUR reason for this lol
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  16. Quote Originally Posted by gatrhater View Post
    I purchased a bottle of toremifene after a 8 week test prop cycle of 100/eod. I was told to use toremifene at 60/40/40/20 which if I had done my research is obviously bogus. I am very worried and am 12 days into the post cycle. What should I do just start the pct at 120/80/60/40, go get a blood test, or buy novadex or another compound and start the pct completely over. Help would be great! Am I looking at long term damage? Iv been freaking myself out all day ...
    Freakin out now is way too late. If you were gonna freak out you should have done it a week before you even started your PCT, not 12 days after you started it. Whats bogus about Torem again? BTW your second dosing proto is closer.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by FranARG View Post
    What I would do, since Tamoxifen is easy to buy where I live, is go get Tamoxifen and do it 60 -30 -20 - 20. Also, keep taking Rev PCT.Any side effects so far?
    Yeah, What??? The man said he has Torem. Also, is it easier to order research chems off the internet where you live than it is where I live??

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ELo View Post
    Yeah, What??? The man said he has Torem. Also, is it easier to order research chems off the internet where you live than it is where I live??
    Internet works exactly the same way. The difference is that I walk the two blocks that separate my house from the pharmacy and I buy it there.

    I live in Argentina, down here we do not take prescriptions too seriously haha..

  19. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Let's also start by saying that you don't have to run post cycle therapy.........you also don't have to wipe your ass after taking a dump: it's just a really really good idea to do these things

    The first thing we need to understand is what is going on with our bodies when we're taking anabolic steroids:
    Exogeneous anabolic hormones (or derivatives of anabolic hormones) are being brought into your system. This causes the body to take a number of responsive actions. The first and foremost (as you already know) is increased muscle mass. Unfortunately, other things are also going on that aren't so great

    When an enzyme or hormone is brought exogeneously into the system, chemical balances shift around to attain a certain equilibrium. This is a chemical concept known as Le Chatelier's Principle of Chemical Equilibria. In a nutshell, your body will increase production of estrogen, cortisol, and other hormones in response to heightened testosterone levels, while simultaneously slowering (or completely stopping) natural production of testosterone. Biologist call this negative feedback.......biology sucks doesn't it?

    Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:
    Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that).

    A + B --------> C

    So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will increase. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will decrease. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will increase. Still with me here? Good.


    What's going on when we come off a cycle:
    Ok, so while we're on the cycle, are natural test production is going down to compensate for the exogeneous test intake, and our production of other steroid hormones (i.e. Estrogen, Cortisol, etc.) is going up to compensate for the heightened test levels. When we come off a cycle, we cease intake of exogeneous testosterone. In other words, we have very low test levels, and very high cortisol and estrogen levels: it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we had while starting our cycle.

    REMEMBER Le Chatelier's Principle because this is where it gets really important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. Ok, I'm gonna say it (and bold it) again because it's just that important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. It is a very common misconception that we want to eradicate estrogen . High estrogen levels play an integral part in Post Cycle therapy. That's right, you want to welcome high estrogen with open freaking arms, but there's a trick to it. And that trick is the almighty SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator).

    SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:
    Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.

    SERM's are prescription drugs, and are NOT SOLD IN SUPPLEMENT STORES. In fact, there are only 3 ways ( can think of) in which you can obtain a SERM:

    1) Through a Doctor's Prescription.
    2) Through the Black Market (a.k.a. illegally)
    3) As a research chemicals intended for use in lab rats.


    The Different SERM's:

    Tamoxifen (Nolvadex):
    Reputation: Most popular SERM for PCT
    Pros: Cheap. Effective for gyno prevention.
    Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's about 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).
    Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 40/40/20/20
    Note: Tamoxifen Citrate is less potent, and should be dosed at an extra 30%.

    Clomiphene Citrate (clomid):
    Reputation: Second most popular. Usually taken the first week or so to speed up Testosterone recovery with Tamoxifen being taken the whole therapy.
    Pros: Better than Tamoxifen for HTPA regernation. Less heptatoxicity. Does not lower IGF.
    Cons: Less effective against gyno. Can cause emotional issues. May Cause blurred vision. Hot Flashes.
    Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 100-200mg/100mg/50mg/50mg

    Toremifene:
    Reputation: Very popular on this board
    Pros: Much less toxic.
    Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
    Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg

    Raloxifene:
    Reputation: Very effective against gyno
    Pros: Strong protection against gyno. Less toxic than Tamoxifen.
    Con's: Cost Restricting. Can cause abnormal blood clotting in the eyes, lunges, and legs. May also cause hot flashes trouble breathing, and blurred vision.
    Popular Dosages: (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg


    Moving down the PCT Hierarchy: Cortisol Control
    Excess cortisol can be damaging to your newly found muscle mass. Because of this, it is a good idea to use something to block or lower the excessive cortisol levels. Always start high, and taper your way down. Here's what we have to work with:

    B-Androstenetriol (b-triol): This is one of the better cortisol suppressors. It has a terrible oral bioavailability, and should be taken transdermally. Dosages range from 25-50mg every 12 hours.

    Methyl B-Androstenetriol (mb-triol): This is an enhanced version of b-triol designed for oral use. Because it is not an androgenic steroid, there is minimal heptatoxicity associated with it's alkylation. Found in the following products: Retain (by Anabolic Xtreme), Restore (by ALRI), Thyrogen-X (by ALRI)

    7-Hydroxy-DHEA: Another potent cortisol suppressor with great oral bioavailability. Found in the following products: Lean Xtreme (by Designer Supplements), Reduce XT (by SNS)

    7-oxo-DHEA (7-keto-DHEA): Still a decent contender, this has a terrible oral availability and an even worse half life (2 hours). This is best taken transdermally, where such effects can by bypassed.

    Cissus: Unlike the above, the components of Cissus do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors (better than Nandrolone or Dianabol according to some studies). Dosages vary significantly (pending extracts). SuperCissus by USPLabs is a high quality Cissus product.

    Branched Chain Amino Acids: These should be a staple to begin with, but are a great anti-catabolic that mitigates the muscle-wasting effects of cortisol.

    At the bottom of the PCT hierarchy there's AI's, Test Booster's, and other 'natural' anabolics
    Way too many different things going on in here to go into too much detail. Just a word of caution (and this is my personal opinion), but if you're post cycle plan starts to look like a constitutional ammendment: you're over-doing it. And the worst part is if something goes wrong, you won't have a damn clue what caused it.

    Honorable mentions of this part of the hierarchy:
    Jungle Warfare (by ALRI)
    MassFX (by Anabolic Xtreme)
    Hyperdrol (by Anabolic Xtreme)
    Ecdysterone/Turkesterone
    Creatine Monohydrate

    Can you tell I was bored after work today?

    thesinner

    Disclaimer: This post is for entertainment purposes only. I don't use or condone the usage of illegally obtained chemicals.

    Author's Note: I cannot and will not give out any information on obtaining any of the drugs mentioned in this article. If you send me a private message asking for sources, I will reply with the following link everytime: Google

    link to source of info:
    http://ezinearticles.com/?Stupid-Peo...rapy&id=607333
  20. Talking


    So a brief history, I've taken a lot of different supplements prior to my first cycle back in 2007. I stacked M-Drol and Tren Oral PH's and that shut me down bad! Terrible decision without doing research on what they were and what PCT even was. A friend and I both did it and he had no issues but I definitely did. I've done different cycles of PH's since then and always used general PCT, the kind that the PH company makes, which have worked OK, but a couple mild issues with small gyno lumps and sensitivity which always goes away over time. This time I'm doing it right before I start. I can't find the info I'm looking for, mainly because I'm confused on what would be good for a cycle of the Beast stack and later down the road the Titan stack. I've posted this question and no replies. What are good recommendations? I hate asking this question with all the pages upon pages of info but its confusing to me. Just don't want to get nolva or clomid and then find out that they're not what I need based on the ingredients in Titan and Beast stacks. Any info on a good PCT regimen is greatly appreciated guys! I'd like to get this started in the next few weeks.

  21. Whats pct?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    Whats pct?
    Idk I just take more Test
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Airborne42 View Post

    Idk I just take more Test
    If ur not taking tribulus youre cutting yourself short

  24. Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post

    If ur not taking tribulus youre cutting yourself short
    I dose trib heavy.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by scw538 View Post

    I dose trib heavy.
    Then your test should be through the roof!

  26. Subd
    “Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our enemies have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" - General Secretary of The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Joseph Stalin.

  27. Soooo...is Nolva good for the serm with these PH's? Is it recommended I use an AI also. Again I'd like to get this started ASAP but want guidance on what is a good PCT for Beast and Titan stacks. I know about the different types and what each does, but jack **** about what is recommended based on what I'm gonna be running. Thanks.

  28. This thread has gone trollio. . .
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  29. I'm kinda new to this fellas so don't laugh but I'm cycling winny 50mg daily. After I'm done should I run pct? If so then what?
    “Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our enemies have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" - General Secretary of The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Joseph Stalin.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Kilo G View Post
    I'm kinda new to this fellas so don't laugh but I'm cycling winny 50mg daily. After I'm done should I run pct? If so then what?
    always rinse and repeat
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
  

  
 

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