No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by musle grower View Post
    please help! i am going with halotest 25 halodrol 50clone for FIrst cycle????? and tomoxifen 40/40/20/20/ is this good for 1st hormone use

    BUMP for this one!!

  2. Wink


    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Goat semen......lots and lots of goat semen. Don't eat real food, just goat semen. If you stick to this plan, I can guarantee in less than a week something will happen

    What does that come in?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by wtfamiiidoing View Post
    thats great advice! But i think ill try my luck...Last time i gained 15 lbs and was able to maintain. Call me old school..
    Better have a short cycle - a long one will drive your test levels to 0 - and without some of what is listed, you will lose your gains. Been there - done that.

  4. Bumping this thread because it needs to be.
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222

  5. awesome ! better become a sticky !
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    It only comes in loads.
    There he is
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222

  7. SERM's are also cheaper than otc pct so it only seems the most intelligent thing to do.

  8. BUMP.
    bcuz some guys just don't have a clue and they need to read this thread..
    it should be a PCT section sticky
    REPS forever to thesinner

  9. Great classic thread! Should be sticky, as mentioned above.

    Maybe it could be updated with some of the newer products available also. Example, do the products still perform as good/ better than newer products out today.

  10. Thank you very much, as a Newbie I must say this clarified many things for me!

  11. so what about pct's that you can buy (reversitrol, anvanced pct, etc.) that claim to increase natural test and block estrogen? is this stuff crap? not work? not recommended or what?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jumpcannon View Post
    so what about pct's that you can buy (reversitrol, anvanced pct, etc.) that claim to increase natural test and block estrogen? is this stuff crap? not work? not recommended or what?
    these products have the potential to provide recovery for mild cycles. post cycle support by AI was originally designed as a PCT for mild Epi Cycles...should work well for standard h-drol cycles too. Definately not something I would trust after a SD (or other potent AAS) cycle though!

    I think Advanced PCT by AX was designed for 3AD too...very mild!
    Iron Legion Rep

  13. Is Nolvadex XT considered a SERM? or just something close to it but not powerful enough ?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by supershah View Post
    Is Nolvadex XT considered a SERM? or just something close to it but not powerful enough ?
    No, its a AI(aromatase inhibitor). It prevents the conversion to estrogen.

    A SERM helps prevent the absorption of estrogen.

  15. This is a great thread. Thank you very much from a noob who is desperately trying to wrap his head around the innumerable threads, posts, sites and opinions about this subject. Because of all the conflicting information I feel like the best I'll ever be able to do is make an educated guess so I'm trying to get as educated as I can get in order to make the best guess :-|

    Seems like the contributors to this thread are firmly in the "always use a SERM" camp. But there hasn't been any discussion about PP's TRS stack, or more specifically their Sustain Alpha product.

    PP claims that this alone is sufficient for PCT with nearly any steroid, but especially for a mild one like Havoc/Epi. There are some message boards where people enthusiastically buy into this claim. Any thoughts about that from this group?

    If there's no way around using a SERM I'm interested in possibly using Toremifene. The only con of Toremifene that's mentioned is "$$$$$expensive$$$$$." No other sides or other cons of using this SERM? How expensive is this stuff, what will it cost for a full PCT of 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg? If cost isn't a factor is this the best/safest/ideal SERM option?

    TIA

  16. This should be made a sticky and bookmarked.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Clomid is usually stacked withh Nolvadex for the first few weeks. The idea being to kickstart HPTA recovery without the 'weird' clomid side effects. Clomid is actually a special estrogen, and when you're on it, you definitely act like a little b*tch.

    Underrated? A little bit. Some people (like Chad) are oldschool and run clomid-only PCT's.

    Bitchiness effect of clomid is highly dose dependant.

  18. helped me a ton thanks

  19. Is AG-Guys and Chemone research still legitimate? Also, what legal ramifications could there possibly be if I buy a product off one of these sites w/ my creditcard?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by seanhammond71 View Post
    Is AG-Guys and Chemone research still legitimate? Also, what legal ramifications could there possibly be if I buy a product off one of these sites w/ my creditcard?
    Do you want potential ramifications or likely ramifications? Likely ramifications are none, I can't recall ever hearing of an arrest for ordering research chemicals. Potential ramifications? SERMs or erectile dysfunction meds qualify as "Legend Drugs" as they are prescription only compounds inside the US. So they are illegal to possess without a prescription for them for personal use. So unless you are registered as a research facility they would be illegal to own. I have never seen this enforced for these sort of items, but it doesn't mean it cant be. If there were a fire in the house, and in the post investigation they found it, they could arrest you for it.... Would they? I doubt it, but the risk is there

  21. Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    This is a great thread. Thank you very much from a noob who is desperately trying to wrap his head around the innumerable threads, posts, sites and opinions about this subject. Because of all the conflicting information I feel like the best I'll ever be able to do is make an educated guess so I'm trying to get as educated as I can get in order to make the best guess :-|

    Seems like the contributors to this thread are firmly in the "always use a SERM" camp. But there hasn't been any discussion about PP's TRS stack, or more specifically their Sustain Alpha product.

    PP claims that this alone is sufficient for PCT with nearly any steroid, but especially for a mild one like Havoc/Epi. There are some message boards where people enthusiastically buy into this claim. Any thoughts about that from this group?

    If there's no way around using a SERM I'm interested in possibly using Toremifene. The only con of Toremifene that's mentioned is "$$$$$expensive$$$$$." No other sides or other cons of using this SERM? How expensive is this stuff, what will it cost for a full PCT of 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg? If cost isn't a factor is this the best/safest/ideal SERM option?

    TIA
    i second this question, can someone please answer?

    Very nice thread btw.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by danny123 View Post
    i second this question, can someone please answer?

    Very nice thread btw.
    Wow. Interesting you quoted that post from me. I've come a long way since making that post.

    This site is way more anti-SERM than I thought when I posted that. However, I am very pro SERM. You will find that there is a clear bias towards OTC PCT on sites like this with very active supplement company reps. Sites with less/no rep activity stand solidly behind SERMs which have been tested tried & true for many years before all these OTC products showed up.

    Torem for PCT will set you back about $80. About twice as much as clomid or nolva but worth it.

    Also, dosing Torem 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg is insane. Even for really suppressive gear I don't think you'll find many people these days who would recommend such high doses in the first two weeks and certainly not for something like epi/hdrol.

    For my first cycle (five weeks with hdrol) my PCT is Torem with Formex, plus natty test booster and cort blocker. So far so good.

    As for SA, there are a lot of people that have used it with success but it's expensive and a bit harder to use since it's a topical.

    HTH

  23. I'm not sure if you guys have seen this thread about Sustain Alpha. You might be interested in you're looking to use Sustain Alpha in replacement of a SERM. I'm not condoning nor condemning this thread, I just think it's interesting:

    Prevent Testicular Shrinkage with a New Legal hCG Alternative -- 7,8 Benzoflavone
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49

  24. Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    No, its a AI(aromatase inhibitor). It prevents the conversion to estrogen.

    A SERM helps prevent the absorption of estrogen.
    SERMs do not prevent the "absorption of estrogen". you do not eat estrogen, it is made in the body by the interaction of testosterone with the aromatase enzyme. SERMs attach to the estrogen receptor and prevent estrogen binding and subsequent effects.

  25. Just stumbled on this thread. Great work bro!

  26. Sorry fairly new to this forum and have been out of the game for some time now. The products mentioned on the pct are they legal and if so where do you find them. Want to be careful not to break any forum rules. But by the names of some of the items im guessing they can be bought online. Thanks you guys have alot of good info here.

  27. subbed for future reference!
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