Flare Up after PCT. from what? what to do?

pistonpump

pistonpump

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Hey guys I finished an aggressive PCT after a 16 week cycle. I finished PCT on Apr 14th or so and I was taking SizeOn, Pfull, Anagen, Fenotest, Z-force since PCT finished. I am currently done with those supplements and I am just taking a multi and Camphbolic.

Now the problem is that I have a gyno flare up, my right nipple which was never really that much of a problem compared to the left. I have a lump and its painful to the touch. Do you guys think this is estrogen rebound from PCT or from the fenotest or something else? What should I do?

I was thinking of doing a SERM or AI....I have tamoxifen, raloxifene, 6oxo, and ReboundXT (ATD). Does anyone have suggestions, advice, or reasons for my current dilemma.
 

PumpingIron

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ralox is the best of what you have stated to help with your gyno problem. from personal experience I would use letro @ 2.5 for 3 weeks. you will feel like **** but it worked for me.


as far as waht caused it. i remember a thread on pfull that said something like this could happen...let me see if i can look it up.
 
mmowry

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Its my guess that its a combo of the Feno and Pfull.My gyno flaired back up after I was taking high doses of bulk MuiraPuama.I believe that its supposed to up lh,fsh production and would lead to more aromataseable compound not withstanding mant of these products have phyto estrogens in them also.

Im paranoid enough about keeping mine gone that I run 25mg ATD everyday when on any natural anabolic or test booster.Good luck and I hope you get it under control.

Id run a serm and ATD til things normalize.
 

charger71

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man i know how that goes, i got my first gyno flare up 3 months after a superdrol cycle. definitely try to get letro, the pain will be gone in no time. if i were you ide run ralox 120mg, tamox 40mg, atd 3 caps ed until your out. ralox should work but it takes time, i ran it for 4 weeks at 60mg and didnt notice much.

or you could just start an epistane cycle and use ralox for pct, from what ive read epistane will most likely work best for reducing the lump.
 
pistonpump

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i took 60mg nolva and 25mg atd today. its getting bad, really puffy too. **** gyno! thing is ralox will take a while im gonna save it for next cycle....I probably only have enough nolva for 2 weeks or so and atd the same.
 

charger71

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ide jump on epistane if i were you, gyno is a son of a *****.
 

Hyde12

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I think it was the fenotest. Fenugreek should be outlawed. I never get any gyno and actually I have really small nips, but when I take Fenugreek everything will be fine for about a week and then my nips get puffy :think: I would try the small dose of Epistane or Havoc. I'm on Havoc now and loving it!
 
pistonpump

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well there we go. im going to get me some havoc/epi soon so maybe i can start on may 1st.

Does anyone know if EST's methyl-E is legit?

Nobody think it is from rebound from PCT? I did a 4 week PCT.
 

PumpingIron

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You really gonna jump back on a designer cycle after just coming off a long cycle?

I guess I see where you're coming from, but run the nolva at decently high doses for a bit and see where that leads you before you go and mess with your hormonal levels again...I think you really should look into letro...honestly it worked wonders for me.
 

charger71

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yeah letro took away the pain and stopped it from growing within 3 days, but it didnt reduce it at all.
 
pistonpump

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You really gonna jump back on a designer cycle after just coming off a long cycle?

I guess I see where you're coming from, but run the nolva at decently high doses for a bit and see where that leads you before you go and mess with your hormonal levels again...I think you really should look into letro...honestly it worked wonders for me.
i was thinking this too but you know when you start growing tits you get a little desperate. How were you on letro? 1 month?
 

PumpingIron

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2.5 for 3 weeks...

I know Dr.D had a few good snipits about using it for this purpose...When I get a few minutes I'll see if I can find it.
 
pistonpump

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I did a few days of 60mg nolva and 50mg atd...then, taking 40mg nolva and 75mg atd... now my joints are cracking and my right nip still hurts with a lump. the left nip is a little better. Im probably gonna do a day more of 40mg nolva and then 20mg along with 50mg atd. I will run out of both by the end of the week and will have only 6oxo left, could i continue with that?

I go on vacation (travel) at the end of the week and nolva is running out. Is this a progesterone/prolactin gyno? Oh, I also started taking 300mg Vitex just in case.


Im not sure what to do. I almost want to just let it go and run its course but I think it just might begin to grow. I go on vacation for a week and if they still hurt I will go see a DR.
 

PumpingIron

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Man, it seems like you have it bad...

You know there is only one full proof way of getting rid of gyno...plus that way is effective at never letting you get gyno again...
 
pistonpump

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Man, it seems like you have it bad...

You know there is only one full proof way of getting rid of gyno...plus that way is effective at never letting you get gyno again...
yeah and i dont have the funds for that. Im just a ball of mutating estrogen! #@!$?

Im just gonna have to run some epi compound in a few months. My last cycle was a nightmare too....

thanks pumpingiron.
 

Beebs

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Letro man... Run it at 2.5ED for a few weeks. It will start to flatten and soften the spots and will definetely remove the pain and puffiness (water retention) within a couple of days. Just be sure to have some aromasin or tamoxifen for the rebound when you taper off at the end and also taper off slowly. It didn't hurt my joints but aromasin does, go figure.

Run a search for C_bino's thread on some of the other boards or google. I didn't bother tapering up but did taper down.
 

CHAPS

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Nolvadex at 60mg would be a wise choice till it goes away then taper it down little by little. I think the Fenotest could have done it, fenugreek gave me puffy nipples as well.
 
pistonpump

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The only thing im on now is the last of Camphbolic. When i come back from my one week vacay if they still hurt ill go see my doc and see what she says....if that doesnt help i guess letro would be top choice.
 

Beebs

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Originally posted by C_bino:

I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

I hope this covers most of the issues, still feel free to PM me if you have questions. But make sure you read the entire post first. I will ignore PM's that have an answer covered in this post already.
 
pistonpump

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well, ive used all my RXT and tamox and im still on vacation so when i get back im going to the doctor. If i dont get help Ill try some letro as above suggested. No itchyness just sore lumps.
 

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