Nolva and Blurred Vision - Calling Dr. D

[Ninjo]

I am in my third week of post cycle therapy on Nolva at 40/40/20/20 and have been experiencing some moderate blurred vision for almost a week. After doing some searching on the Internet, I discovered that Nolva use has been occasionally attributed to eye damage in some individuals. I was aware that Clomid is well known to carry this risk but my understanding was that Nolva was much less precarious in this regard and that damage had only been linked to long term use.

Dr. D, is the blurred vision a temporary side effect that will likely disappear when I stop using Nolva or should I discontinue use immediately?

Help with this is appreciated!

 

[DAdams91982]

I am in my third week of post cycle therapy on Nolva at 40/40/20/20 and have been experiencing some moderate blurred vision for almost a week. After doing some searching on the Internet, I discovered that Nolva use has been occasionally attributed to eye damage in some individuals. I was aware that Clomid is well known to carry this risk but my understanding was that Nolva was much less precarious in this regard and that damage had only been linked to long term use.

Dr. D, is the blurred vision a temporary side effect that will likely disappear when I stop using Nolva or should I discontinue use immediately?

Help with this is appreciated!

You will find The good Dr. is VERY much against the use of Tamox.

Resume with some Clomid, or pick up some Torm. to many risks with Tamox.

Adams

 

[Ziricote]

Or even Ramoxifen.

 

[anabolicrhino]

Impaired vision vs estrogen rebound always a tough choice.

Personally I would prefer titties to blindness!

Not everone responds well to nolva it may be time to try something new..I like Raloxifiene.

 

[Ninjo]

Resume with some Clomid, or pick up some Torm. to many risks with Tamox.

Adams

Isn't Clomid worse on eyesight than tamox.? Either way, I do have some on hand in 50mg caps...what would be the equivalent of my current 20mg Nolva daily dosage if I were to switch?

 

[Ninjo]

Impaired vision vs estrogen rebound always a tough choice.

Personally I would prefer titties to blindness!

Not everone responds well to nolva it may be time to try something new..I like Raloxifiene.

The only SERMs I have on hand are Nolva and Clomid and, since I live in Canada, it would take too long to try to get Tor or Ralox...but maybe next time...thanks for the advice.

 

[DAdams91982]

Isn't Clomid worse on eyesight than tamox.? Either way, I do have some on hand in 50mg caps...what would be the equivalent of my current 20mg Nolva daily dosage if I were to switch?

Different pathways... so may not give you trouble. obviously you are having problems with Tamox, worth a shot to switch, and see if your body handles it well. Tamox is a Chemotherapy drug... whereas Clomid is used for fertility.... kind of a no brainer.

Adams

 

[Ninjo]

Can anyone tell me if vision problems associated with Nolva are permanent or whether they will subside once use is discontinued?

 

[DAdams91982]

Can anyone tell me if vision problems associated with Nolva are permanent or whether they will subside once use is discontinued?

When I dose high.. I get blurred a bit, and some tracers.. but if it does happen, I drop the dose immediately.. and they subside. If I had to make an educated guess, it would be that continuing high dose even with the side, could eventually damage the ocular nerve.

Adams

 

[Ninjo]

When I dose high.. I get blurred a bit, and some tracers.. but if it does happen, I drop the dose immediately.. and they subside. If I had to make an educated guess, it would be that continuing high dose even with the side, could eventually damage the ocular nerve.

Adams

Well, I went 2 weeks at 40mg and then dropped it down to 20mg in the third week (3 days after I noticed the vision problems)...will drop again to 10mg for the final week although I had originally planned to go with 20mg in week 4. And I also have noticed the tracers although I think I have them regardless, they are just more pronounced on the nolva. Thanks for the reply.

 

[yeahright]

Discontinue the nolva. I don't know what your cycle was like but you could probably get away with ceasing your pct alltogether if it was a light oral cycle since you've got two weeks in already. Nonetheless, this is a serious side-effect. Swap in the clomid or an AI if you want but discontinue use of the product causing the health issue.

 

[meowmeow]

Can anyone tell me if vision problems associated with Nolva are permanent or whether they will subside once use is discontinued?

If you recently had corrective eye vision surgery then the vision problems may persist. There are reports of Nolva users who have previously had such eye surgery, experiencing mild blurred vision as a result of Nolva used in post cycle therapy. The problem did not go away after stopping Nolva use.

If you don't fall into the above category than your vision problems should go away. However you need to cease use of Nolva immediately. Do not take any more risk w/ your vision.

 

[DmitryWI]

Discontinue the nolva. I don't know what your cycle was like but you could probably get away with ceasing your post cycle therapy alltogether if it was a light oral cycle. Nonetheless, this is a serious side-effect. Swap in the clomid or an AI if you want but discontinue use of the product causing the helth issue.

What he said. I would discontinue right away.

 

[Ninjo]

If you recently had corrective eye vision surgery then the vision problems may persist. There are reports of Nolva users who have previously had such eye surgery, experiencing mild blurred vision as a result of Nolva used in post cycle therapy. The problem did not go away after stopping Nolva use.

If you don't fall into the above category than your vision problems should go away. However you need to cease use of Nolva immediately. Do not take any more risk w/ your vision.

I have in fact had corrective eye vision surgery but it was done in December of 1995, over 11 years ago!

In any case, it sounds as if the consensus is to discontinue the Nolva.

 

[Ninjo]

Discontinue the nolva. I don't know what your cycle was like but you could probably get away with ceasing your post cycle therapy alltogether if it was a light oral cycle. Nonetheless, this is a serious side-effect. Swap in the clomid or an AI if you want but discontinue use of the product causing the helth issue.

Cycle was 4 weeks PP/Zol...would 50mg of Clomid be a good idea for the remainder of my PCT? I am also taking ALRI Restore which has an AI in it.

 

[yeahright]

Cycle was 4 weeks PP/Zol...would 50mg of Clomid be a good idea for the remainder of my post cycle therapy? I am also taking ALRI Restore which has an AI in it.

How do you feel? Are the boys back to size? Libido? If you're feeling recovered, I would just continue with the restore. If you're still feeling suppressed, I'd do a week or two of clomid.

There is the ideal pct, and then there is the adequate pct. With these side-effects, I personally would just do the adequate and see how I was feeling in a couple weeks.

 

[DR.D]

... Dr. D, is the blurred vision a temporary side effect that will likely disappear when I stop using Nolva or should I discontinue use immediately?

Help with this is appreciated!

Yes, discontinue immediately. If it was Clomid I would say stop 3-7 days and rechallenge at a lower dose IF symptoms had subsided, but with Nolva it is far more sinister. The eye issue is a result of phosphonic acid and that can result in long term sequela. Stop now is my strong recommendation and the retinal lesions and macular edema can be reversed. How is your perceivable degree of recovery so far? The half-life of Nolva is so long that you should have enough in you system to finish the job. Your doses where also low enough that I don't foresee a rebound and you can pick up the slack with an AI or Raloxifene if you need to (not Clomid, not Fareston or any other TPE class SERM). I think you'll be fine, just eat well, get 8-9hours of sleep every day (I'm not one to talk, I know) and take a double dose on your daily anti-oxidants till you can see straight again.

Please feel free to PM me anytime I don't see a thread, about anything. I don't always catch them. PM if it doesn't clear up or you have any other concerns, but the times this has happened to me (w/ Clomid only) I have always recovered. Nolva is not as kind. I have seen people force the issue with Nolva before and it wasn't pretty. I knew a lady who lost all her teeth from Nolva toxicity. BTW, have I ever mentioned I hate Nolva!

 

[Ninjo]

How do you feel? Are the boys back to size? Libido? If you're feeling recovered, I would just continue with the restore. If you're still feeling suppressed, I'd do a week or two of clomid.

I feel pretty much recovered...the boys are back to normal and libido is healthy...I stopped the Nolva and am continuing with Restore as you suggested.

 

[sublimejeh]

I feel pretty much recovered...the boys are back to normal and libido is healthy...I stopped the Nolva and am continuing with Restore as you suggested.

good to hear

 

[Ninjo]

Yes, discontinue immediately. If it was Clomid I would say stop 3-7 days and rechallenge at a lower dose IF symptoms had subsided, but with Nolva it is far more sinister. The eye issue is a result of phosphonic acid and that can result in long term sequela. Stop now is my strong recommendation and the retinal lesions and macular edema can be reversed. How is your perceivable degree of recovery so far? The half-life of Nolva is so long that you should have enough in you system to finish the job. Your doses where also low enough that I don't foresee a rebound and you can pick up the slack with an AI or Raloxifene if you need to (not Clomid, not Fareston or any other TPE class SERM). I think you'll be fine, just eat well, get 8-9hours of sleep every day (I'm not one to talk, I know) and take a double dose on your daily anti-oxidants till you can see straight again.

Please feel free to PM me anytime I don't see a thread, about anything. I don't always catch them. PM if it doesn't clear up or you have any other concerns, but the times this has happened to me (w/ Clomid only) I have always recovered. Nolva is not as kind. I have seen people force the issue with Nolva before and it wasn't pretty. I knew a lady who lost all her teeth from Nolva toxicity. BTW, have I ever mentioned I hate Nolva!

Thanks for the advice doc. I have stopped the Nolva and am continuing with Restore which has an AI in it at 3 caps per day. I think next time I'll try and get some Tor or Ralox.

As far as my perceived recovery goes, I feel that I'm pretty close to being back to normal. Should I taper the Restore down before discontinuing? I remember reading in one of your posts once that ATD is self-tapering but not sure about 6-bromodione (sp.) which is in Restore. Thanks again bro.

 

[DR.D]

Thanks for the advice doc. I have stopped the Nolva and am continuing with Restore which has an AI in it at 3 caps per day. I think next time I'll try and get some Tor or Ralox.

As far as my perceived recovery goes, I feel that I'm pretty close to being back to normal. Should I taper the Restore down before discontinuing? I remember reading in one of your posts once that ATD is self-tapering but not sure about 6-bromodione (sp.) which is in Restore. Thanks again bro.

I'm not sure about the doses of 6-Br but it's self-tapering too so to speak. Still, with the extras in it like Chasteberry and stuff it's probably best to taper off anyway.

 

[B5150]

I knew a lady who lost all her teeth from Nolva toxicity.

Could you explain the mechanism behind this?

 

[DR.D]

Could you explain the mechanism behind this?

It was never concluded for certain. She was being treated with standard doses of tamoxifen for breast cancer and all her teeth became loose and had to be removed after about 6 months. Peripheral neuropathy possibly resulting from low levels of IGF-I and III plus reduced vascular endothelial growth factors (angiogenesis inhibition) and failure to develop connective tissue matrix material. All the things you'd love to see happening in a cancer patient really, but that's why it's only used for cancer! Tamoxifen is like Russian roulette. After a few years and a dozen PCT's it starts to add up, just like long term expose to many thing in life that see harmless enough initially. It's a dirty drug.

 

[Chad]

eat my ass emo!!!

 

[CryingEmo]

eat my ass emo!!!

:blink:

 

[Chad]

:blink:

aww dont give me that face. im sorry