- 11-17-2006, 03:55 PM
Ok I took a mega trn/methoxy tst/mega zol stack and that ended in July. My post cycle therapy was ATD/Trib/Maca/LJ100. I did not run a SERM because I didnt know I needed to. Well, I got my Testosterone checked and it was total test 220, free test 71 and dht 17. My libido is pretty much not there and i never wake up with wood. I ordered some clomid and took for about 4 days and it seemed like it made things worse so I stopped. My nuts seem normal size. I got some Tormefine on the way, i hope that helps. Does anyone have any suggestions? its been about 4 months now with no libido. Is it too late to run the Tormefine?
- 11-19-2006, 01:50 AM
no, because you never ran a good PCT and so its better late than never, trust me. I had a bad batch of tamox from lion nutr. and my libido was shot for a long time, took tamox and clomid for month about 5 months after the cycle and it brought me pretty much back to normal, i still took some other stuff after it like natural test boosters but deffinately get some serms in there for a month straight... basically run a normal PCT
- 11-19-2006, 05:13 AM
I wonder what the libido loss was from?
I had libido problems after a full PCT (nolva, rxt, fenu, retain, zma, trib) after a PP cycle and a MTRN ending cycle. The rxt(atd) and the mtrn is what we both have in common......
11-19-2006, 05:32 AM
Hope my Tormifene gets here soon!
Thanks for the replies. The ATD was about 2 months ago so I dont think that is the problem. I got more blood work done and this time my total test was about 310 (still low) and the doc thinks that I am improving! Keep in mind that they did the tests at two different times of the day so I know that can throw the test off. I can tell Im shut down. I started the clomid again last night, I just dont feel any different on it. It makes me feel worse!?! I hope the Torm works. I ordered it from *** I hope it gets here soon. Im going to drop the clomid and stick with the tormifene
11-19-2006, 05:37 AM
ATD has been the only thing that has ever given me or anyone I know personally libido problems. I'm not saying it is in your case, but is what I have seen personally. Might want to give Nutraplanets Horny Mac Jack Stack a shot along with some Muira Puama
11-19-2006, 05:46 AM
I hope ATD didnt do this. I could have too low estrogen too. I never had any problem with gyno or anything. I am screwed to get my libido back then because I dont know what I could possible take to get my testosterone back but keep my estrogen from getting too low. I have the horny/mack/jack stack and it doesnt do anything for me. We will see what the Tormeifene does and when I get it, I will make sure I post my results on here.
11-19-2006, 05:49 AM
Oh, i forgot to mention that im also taking Nitro T3 at night and I take arginine ethyl esther/citrilene malate/creatine ethyl esther before workout. And I take panax ginseng too.
11-20-2006, 05:08 AM
Ok, I decided to throw in some DHEA with my clomid and I can tell a big difference in my libido. I wish I would have reached for the dusty bottle of DHEA 5 months ago
11-20-2006, 06:52 AM
I still will never see how some people are able to diagnose anything with as many supps as they are taking. Especially when there are so many other causes of poor libido outside of those supps.
11-20-2006, 07:01 AM
you know i was going to post the same thing? Looks like your taking so many things maybe you just need to go with protien and good food with a multivitamin for a while. Im sure supp overload can get nasty on your body at times....Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
11-20-2006, 07:08 AM
11-20-2006, 09:51 AM
Yeah, your right. I just get paranoid just knowing that my test is low so I try just about everything to get it back up.
11-20-2006, 10:38 AM
I hear ya just don't fubar other biofunctions for the one that may be lagging.
11-20-2006, 11:02 AM
how old are you dude? sometimes it just takes time to come back. I still dont pop out the porno as often as i used to, as a matter of fact way less then i used to. But, if you dont have a gurl and you want to test just pop in a **** flick and see if you start beating the meat. If you do then you looking good in the libido area imo lol. when im with a girl tho im soooo horny haha ok sorry for stickin that in your face but sometimes you have to wait then test yourself to see where you are in the libido section.
11-20-2006, 11:09 AM
Or if you're married for a long time it could be you just rather sleep instead of ****ing lol
11-20-2006, 04:17 PM
11-20-2006, 04:29 PM
Im 28 and married. I love my wife and I use to love to have sex like 24/7 I just havent since I touched pro hormones. I should have ran the SERM after. Well, better late than never I guess. got my Torm in today we will see how that goes.
11-20-2006, 05:17 PM
Listen to meOriginally Posted by Hyde12
DHEA is supressive. It is the same as taking andro, which is one of the substnaces DHEA converts to. Yes, it will raise your testosterone levels, but the testosterone will be from the DHEA and not your own production. On top of those DHEA forms some powerful estrogens, in large quantity, supressing you even more.
Youre treating the symptons, not the problem.
I have been in the same situation as you after an m1t cycle. 4 months later i just hit rock bottom. turns out my HPTA bounced back and then sank right back down.
Further post cycle with chlomid/nolva made me feel worse, sound familiar?
After post cycle therapy failed to bring me back to normal i did the only thing i could think of, i went back on cycle. Test prop 150mg eod for 8 weeks. At the end of the 8 weeks, ran a standard Chlomid/Nolva PCT with a .25mg of a-dex estrogen rebound control during week 5.
I felt better within 1 week of PCT, and back to normal by the end of week 3. Some may tell you this is a horrible idea, but people who run poor PCT's and hop onto SERMS consistently have a hard time bringing their HPTA back to where it used to be. It has already partially recovered and is comfortable in its parti-functioning loop.
if i were you at this point, i would obtain tesosterone propionate and use it for 6-8 weeks (100 mgs EOD should shut you down efficiently) and let it shut everything down again. Then use the toremifene. Think of it as a "reset" button.
If you arent comfortable doing this, then i would suggest the toremifene over the chlomid. Toremifene, from what we can tell, is much more powerful than even the nolva/chlomid combo. I personally have done a log using toremifene, and i have never recovered so quickly, in all areas. Again,
DROP THE DHEA
11-20-2006, 07:35 PM
lol, couldn't of said it better myself...Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
11-21-2006, 04:45 AM
This is a good idea. If the Toremifene fails I might try it. If I do then i will try that new liquid Masterdrol since I have a hard time getting real gear. Do you think that would be sufficient??Originally Posted by jomi822
11-21-2006, 05:11 AM
man youre stuck in the supplement trap! New things come out and you think its cool to do it or to have it. Thats what it seems like, so you end up taking all this stuff when you need to let your body know what normal is again imo. No the masterdrol will not work from what it is speculated to be made of and the feedback im hearing on it.Originally Posted by Hyde12
im sorry i cant offer more helpful advice then maybe taking a 30day period of toremifene ONLY. That might work. Stay away from any supplements you dont need.
11-21-2006, 01:12 PM
No, the reason i reocmmended testosterone is because it will at least restore your libido and mood until you can come off and jumpstart your own production again.Originally Posted by Hyde12
by all means, give toremifene a try first, its extremely powerful. however, i have never heard of someone in your situation who has been able to bring everytyhing back to normal so long after a bad PCT.
11-21-2006, 07:03 PM
11-23-2006, 06:04 AM
So Im on about day 3 of the Torm and its working already! My libido is already starting to return to normal. This stuff is awesome. Im going to take the advice about the supplement overload. I stopped taking the DHEA also just in case its suppressive.
11-23-2006, 09:42 AM
Good stuff man. I'mma have to get on that I guess... !Originally Posted by Hyde12
11-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Well, just a quick update. Im into my 9th day of torm. Libido has been up and down, but erections are much bigger. Libido was dead today, but its not even 10 days yet. All im taking right now is the torm. Nuts still arent where they should be in terms of size.
11-28-2006, 05:52 PM
what do your doses look like?Originally Posted by Hyde12
11-29-2006, 04:32 AM
i started at 120 for the first couple of days and now im down to 60. Maybe I should bump it up? When I first started I had clomid in my system still so maybe that was helping. I wish I would have gotten two bottles of the Torm.
11-29-2006, 01:06 PM
after 2 days on torm (following test and TREN) the size of my ejaculation had increased 3 or 4fold. recovery is very quick on torm. if you arent feeling the effects of recovery yet maybe you should opt to throw in chlomid at 50mgs ED to your torm dosing.
i would seriously suggest you re-supress yourself and start from sctratch if you dont start seeing results soon.
11-29-2006, 04:07 PM
Im starting to think that I may have a varicocele because I notice that one of my nuts is bigger than the other and there is this weird mound of veins there. Could this be the reason for my low test? Well I got an appointment with a urologist in a couple of weeks so hopefully they can fix this.
11-29-2006, 04:22 PM
a urologist wont know anything about pct. he will only know how to apply HRT with tesosterone and HCG.
11-29-2006, 04:44 PM
he could fix the varicocele if I have one (which i really think that I do) Im just getting fed up. I just want some test in my system.
11-29-2006, 09:26 PM
if you do have a varicocele then he will be able to help with that...but if you want NATURAL testosterone production and not a protocol based on HCG and testosterone injections this board will be much more help than your doctor. i would suggest you get bloodwork re-done and take it to the male anti aging medicine forum and consult doctor john, he is a leader in the field.Originally Posted by Hyde12
12-20-2006, 06:05 PM
Ok, so the doc told me that I DO in fact have a VARICOCELE. I dont know if this effects testosterone or not, but we will see.
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