Toremifene PCT log- thought id give some feedback

[jomi822]

I am coming to a close on my testosterone enanthate and tren ace cycle. post cycle therapy starts in 2 days. my last shot of test E was 12 days ago.

my cycle was as follows-
test E- 600mgs weeks 1-12
tren ace- 75 mgs EOD weeks 1-10

hopefully i do not experience the dreaded nandralone PCT interference associated with tren and deca. i believe i left myself enough discontinuation time. i have also been using HCG at 250 IU twice a week for the past 3 weeks. the boys have gained back a significant amount of size from this.

i have PCT experience with chlomid, nolva, 6-oxo, rebound xt, dhea, and tribulus.

here is my planned post cycle therapy-

week 1
chlomid -150 mgs
torm- 160 mgs
adex- .25 mg EOD
100 mgs DHEA first 3 days-50 mgs dhea the last 4

week 2
chlomid-100mgs
torm- 60

week 3
chlomid- 100mgs
torm- 60

week 4
chlomid- 50mgs
torm- 40 mgs

week 5
.25 mg adex if estrogen rebound occurs

EDIT- gained 12 lbs on cycle- up to 244lbs at 6'2
lets see how much of it i can keep

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Best of luck.

 

[jomi822]

post cycle therapy started today

the first thing i want to say is that i have tried many research chems from many different companies, and the toremifene is by far the most raunchy tasting godforsaken thing i have ever been able to get down my throat in my entire life. it tastes like cottage cheese grown in hillary clintons axe wound sprinkled with some man-taint from michael more. that aside...

160 of of the torm and 150 of chlomid down the hatch along with the DHEA and the A-dex.

it normally takes a nolva/chlomid combo about a week for me to recover a 24 year old's libido and a peter north sized load. dont let me down toremifene.

 

[jomi822]

day 2

i am feeling a little deflated and small today. ****

i feel "off" but its to be exected post cycle. in other news my boys are actually sore. i mean there is actually a significant amount of pain. i hope to god its them being turned back on at ludicrous speed and not them telling me they dont feel like working.

ill do the toremifene now but save the chlomid for before bed, i cant handle them both at once, the toremifene makes me want to projectile vomit.

 

[pistonpump]

good luck jomi

 

[yeahright]

Good luck.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I'll be watching Jomi

 

[General_Jah]

day 2

i am feeling a little deflated and small today. ****

i feel "off" but its to be exected post cycle. in other news my boys are actually sore. i mean there is actually a significant amount of pain. i hope to god its them being turned back on at ludicrous speed and not them telling me they dont feel like working.

ill do the toremifene now but save the chlomid for before bed, i cant handle them both at once, the toremifene makes me want to projectile vomit.

just mix the toremifene with a small amount of water and gatorade. Can't taste it at all really. Kinda like a PCT shot!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Buy 00's and cap it man. That's what I will be doing.

 

[jomi822]

it wasnt as bad today as yesterday, i just shoved the oral syringe halfway down my throat like a cheap pornstar so i didnt have to taste it.

ill take the gatorade trick into consideration.

i had decent leg work out today, just got back. i was up to squatting 495 for 6 (top of the pyramid) with tren in the mix, now im down to 465 for 5. i consider this to be acceptable and will try to maintain this level of strength.

back is still looking ridiculous, and i still have some striations in my delts although they are beginning to look a tad watery. i will miss my dear striations....

weight is at 245.6 up from 244. this is likely from my postworkout full blender protein shake, banana, two raw eggs and cheerios. delish

 

[jomi822]

BINGO

a few hours a ago i was messing around with my girlfiend and i blew the biggest load i think i have ever accomplished thus far during my life. it has at least quintuppled from my on cycle norm. thats on 2 days people.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Good to hear. I'm looking forward to Tor my next cycle

 

[stinkfinger]

I used Torm my last Superdrol cycle and couldn't believe the difference. My libido was shot and after about 2 days of torm I felt back to normal. I just wish it was cheaper. But it is worth it!

 

[idunk42]

Looking good so far bro. And yes. Tor's taste is absolutely horrible.

 

[jmh80]

Torem is some good stuff.

 

[jomi822]

Day 3

I have a lot of acne flare up today, much worse than any acne i got on cycle. although im not a fan having the face of an 17 year old high school student i appreciate the flare of testosterone i must have to be causing it.


No loss of libido, still by all means a peter north equivalent.

i usually experience this type of reaction a little after a week on chlomid/nolva

 

[mixedup]

I take all my liquids with orange juice works great something about the acidic level of the juice kind of neutralizes the taste I think because i've tried with other juice not citrus and it didn't work as good. Did the same with my liquid dbol worked like a charm

 

[jmh80]

Yup - I get bad back breakouts on any anti-estrogen supps.

 

[Trauma1]

I used "00" capsules which definatley avoided the god aweful taste.....I have to agree torem is some great stuff indeed!

 

[Ubiquitous]

You get used to the taste... it's well worth it in regards to how quicky it jumps you back into action regardless.

We all get pimples from SERM use.. especially in post cycle therapy because of the fluctuation of sex hormones.

Tor works very quickly and should be a mainstay in PCT.

I wouldn't run Clomid with it as you outlined.. Just because Tor is good enough. I would think Torem and Clomid would compete... I'm pretty sure someone learned in this subject had told me this before regarding combining SERMs in PCT.... I could be wrong. (I had followed Pheedno's Protocol up to the time this person had mentioned this to me)

Good luck.

 

[bioman]

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Clomid either. Tor is amazing and needs no help. If you are bloated, an AI is fine, but for pure recovery Tor and some DHEA will have the boys swinging in no time.

Mixing it in 6-10 oz of water makes it nearly tasteless.

I got my wife pregnant while on PCT using Tor :hammer:

 

[yeahright]

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Clomid either. Tor is amazing and needs no help. If you are bloated, an AI is fine, but for pure recovery Tor and some DHEA will have the boys swinging in no time.

I may be wrong but I thought it was advisable to use an AI while taking DHEA to combat DHEA metabolsim into estrogens.

 

[blazinred]

I got my wife pregnant while on post cycle therapy using Tor :hammer:

I was afraid of this, Where you trying to conceive?BTW, congradulations!

 

[machinehead]

I may be wrong but I thought it was advisable to use an AI while taking DHEA to combat DHEA metabolsim into estrogens.

DHEA readily converts to 5-AD which is estrogenic but an AI does not help with that.

 

[bioman]

According to Dr D, the rate of conversion to estrogen..estrone/estradiol..is quite low. I usually do run an AI of some sort anyway as it's usually a bulking cycle and therefore wet to some degree. ATD has been fine in this regard as has RR and Restore.

 

[jomi822]

day 4

weighing in at 243 from 244

i am continuing to break out in more acne, i cant wait until this silly little post cycle occurence goes away. my nuts do not hurt anymore, which is a good thing without question. toremifene gave me the same feeling as being kicked int he balls by a fat chick.

i also woke up with a raging erectioin this morning. what a beautiful thing. this is the smoothest and quickest post cycle therapy has ever gone for me.

was Dr. D the intiator of toremifene post cycle therapy use? or was it someone else. in either case, thankyou Dr. D for letting me know about tor.

 

[jomi822]

Day 5

weight is at 243 down from 244

feeling a little blue today. i dropped the DHEA down to 50mgs and will use only 25 mgs tomorrow, as a modification to my plan.

my sex drive has decreased a little bit but i was still capable of having sex complete with the peter north finale. I am also going to cut out the a-dex as i may be using too much estrogen suppression, which would explain the drop in sex drive. then again it might all be in my head

i am continuing to break out in acne and my testicles have regained some more size, almost back to what i think would be the complete size.

i am also waiting on some insulin like growth factor to add to the mix, which i ordered two months ago, thats a whole other story.

 

[jomi822]

day 7

i moved into my new home today, so i didnt get a chance for my arm workout, which is a bummer.

i feel smaller but this may be in my head, i will not know until i weigh myself tomorrow. tomorrow i drop down to

60 tor
100 chlomid

i belive my testicles have regained their full size. i am impressed with the speed at wich this has happend. at this point i feel confident in giving my recommendation of toremifene in place of tamoxifen during post cycle therapy.

 

[yeahright]

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[General_Jah]

Man I am glad to hear you are having such great success on it!

I am using it for my PCT and have been running into serious issues after day 5 with regards to sex drive, but it could be because of all the other supps I have been taking with it :/ I think next time I am just going to stick with straight Tor.

Keep me updated!

day 7

i moved into my new home today, so i didnt get a chance for my arm workout, which is a bummer.

i feel smaller but this may be in my head, i will not know until i weigh myself tomorrow. tomorrow i drop down to

60 tor
100 chlomid

i belive my testicles have regained their full size. i am impressed with the speed at wich this has happend. at this point i feel confident in giving my recommendation of toremifene in place of tamoxifen during post cycle therapy.

 

[pistonpump]

Man I am glad to hear you are having such great success on it!

I am using it for my post cycle therapy and have been running into serious issues after day 5 with regards to sex drive, but it could be because of all the other supps I have been taking with it :/ I think next time I am just going to stick with straight Tor.

Keep me updated!

what else are you taking and at what dose?

 

[General_Jah]

what else are you taking and at what dose?

I just recently (roughly 25 days ago) finished a transdermal of 4AD/1T.

I started my post cycle therapy 30 days ago and its looking something like this.

week 1 120mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/200mg dhea/3 lean extreme/3 rebound reloaded/4 activate

week 2 120mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/150mg dhea/3 lean extreme/3 rebound reloaded/4 activate

week 3 90mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/100mg dhea/2 lean extreme/4 activate

week 4 60mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/50 dhea/1 lean extreme/4 activate

week 5-6 30mg torem/1 gfenu/1g maca/1g trib/1 lean extreme/4 activate

What is really frustrating is that my strength is horribly low, honestly some bodyparts are lower than they were before I hit the transdermal. Also, my sex drive is nill, the plumbing works ok I just have no desire to tear into some ass unless my girlfriend is spreading her legs right in front of me heh.

Interestingly though I lost about 5 lbs during my first week of PCT, I was holding a lot of water. After that first week my weight has stayed nearly the same, right at 200lbs. Which gives me a net gain of aroudn 12 lbs from the cycle.

Any ideas what I did wrong to jack up my hormones?

 

[pistonpump]

damn that is alot of stuff you took for PCT! Thats what did it in my opinion. Something like a receptor overload i guess not to mention body see-saw. Did you keep your diet the same? IM no expert in cycling so maybe someone else can help.

Did the torem bring your balls back faster than tamox?

 

[General_Jah]

damn that is alot of stuff you took for post cycle therapy! Thats what did it in my opinion. Something like a receptor overload i guess not to mention body see-saw. Did you keep your diet the same? IM no expert in cycling so maybe someone else can help.

Did the torem bring your balls back faster than tamox?

Well the first few days were pretty rough.. around day 4-5 though I felt my sex drive and the boys kick in hardcore... I busted a nut while taking a nap heh! But right after that I nosed dived hardcore :/

 

[jomi822]

yea when you first start taking toremifene you bust a serious nut.

taking 200mgs of DHEA is suppressive, that converts to a significant quantity of testosterone and estrogen. when i take dhea i feel like i am still on, good for some libido boost post cycle but running it past 100 mgs for more than a week isnt a good idea IMO.

Day 8

did my arm workout today. arm strength is the same, along with weight. still holding at 243, although i have gained some fat :stick:

acne is continuing to break out despite my best efforts and i dare say my DHT has spiked because my scalp is itchy as hell despite twice daily nizoral applications. all in all, recovery is proceeding.

 

[jomi822]

day 10

hm i think i messed up my day numbering. o well. today is day 10.

I am no longer experiencing any acne or skin irritation. my scalp still itches however.

my libido is shot to hell. if this doesnt rectify itself i will add in dhea at 100 mgs to give me some more free test floating around.

 

[jomi822]

Day 15

i have been afraid to weigh myself lately. i have been feeling "catabolic" for lack of a better word, and i have been doing a decent amount of travel by foot during the past week. i expected to have lost at least 5 pounds.

however, i mustered up the courage to weigh myself today and

244. i weigh exactly what i weighed on cycle.

I have been taking albuterol at 4mgs before every workout. any fat i gained shortly after doing post cycle therapy is gone and the albuterol is making me quite ripped.

lifts are holding some solid strength. my squat is still 465 at its peak, and my bench reaches 345 during my regular chest workouts.

i am beginning to think clenbuterol's fabled anabolic properties have manifested themselves quite nicely in albuterol.

 

[Werewolf]

I just recently (roughly 25 days ago) finished a transdermal of 4AD/1T.

I started my post cycle therapy 30 days ago and its looking something like this.

week 1 120mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/200mg dhea/3 lean extreme/3 rebound reloaded/4 activate

week 2 120mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/150mg dhea/3 lean extreme/3 rebound reloaded/4 activate

week 3 90mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/100mg dhea/2 lean extreme/4 activate

week 4 60mg torem/1g fenu/1g maca/1g trib/50 dhea/1 lean extreme/4 activate

week 5-6 30mg torem/1 gfenu/1g maca/1g trib/1 lean extreme/4 activate

What is really frustrating is that my strength is horribly low, honestly some bodyparts are lower than they were before I hit the transdermal. Also, my sex drive is nill, the plumbing works ok I just have no desire to tear into some ass unless my girlfriend is spreading her legs right in front of me heh.

Interestingly though I lost about 5 lbs during my first week of post cycle therapy, I was holding a lot of water. After that first week my weight has stayed nearly the same, right at 200lbs. Which gives me a net gain of aroudn 12 lbs from the cycle.

Any ideas what I did wrong to jack up my hormones?

Yea, you drove your estrogen levels to roughly 0 for the first two weeks. 120mg of TOR and 3 RRs. Learn to respect your estrogen levels. The 3 RRs were Overkill.

 

[jmh80]

Rebound Reloaded seems to cause an increase in libido though?

At least it did in me and most of the other beta testers.

 

[Werewolf]

Rebound Reloaded seems to cause an increase in libido though?

At least it did in me and most of the other beta testers.

Were you taking 120 mgs of Tor at the same time?

The stuff I saw you were not. AI inverse to SERM.

Both RR and TOR are very strong.

I'm actually thinking no AI until you start to drop TOR levels down.

 

[jmh80]

Took Reloaded w/ Activate for the beta.

Took Torem for TST/TRN PCT - added Reloaded a week in - when I was down to 90 mgs/day of Torem.

BTW - Torem is awesome!!!!!

 

[jomi822]

Day 21

no more acne, my balls are hanging low and large (about the size of a death star each), and libido hasnt been this high since high school.

in short, i feel like i am fully recovered.
weight is holding at 242-244
strength has been constant since the initial drop the first week off

now cruising on 40mgs of torm alone, in modification to my original plan. no need to overdo it if i feel i am fully recovered.

i may be adding some igf-1 at 40mcs e3d in the coming week.

 

[bpmartyr]

Good to hear bro! Thanks for loggin.

Deathstar? Or, "fully operational battlestation!". <-- Said in the best Sith Lord voice I can manage.

 

[jomi822]

day 27

sorry for the delay in update, i have been very busy. there has also been little change in my condition.

i have added insulin like growth factor at 40mics e3d (started 6 days ago). my weight is up to 245.

believe it or not i have more or less gotten used to the disgusting taste of torm, which is a godsend.

again, i feel fully recovered and have for some time now.

next cycle starts next sunday if my condition remains constant with no estrogen rebound.

 

[pistonpump]

You going to start another cycle right after PCT!?? Im tempted to do the same but I dont really see the point in doing a good PCT if youre just gonna go back right after, JMO. I know alot of people out there probably do the same but I dont understand it personally.

 

[jomi822]

You going to start another cycle right after post cycle therapy!?? Im tempted to do the same but I dont really see the point in doing a good PCT if youre just gonna go back right after, JMO. I know alot of people out there probably do the same but I dont understand it personally.

i understand this line of thinking, cautious cycling is without a doubt safer.

The reason i am starting another cycle is for two reasons-
1. it never takes me more than two weeks, and usually sooner, to recover from any cycle of steroids
2. i wil be using hcg, so i am really not concerned about testicular atrophy and the slow recovery it entails during pct

doing a month of pct to keep your HPTA working, and not doing any pct at all/staying on year round are too very different things. when it starts taking me more than 2 weeks to bounce back from a cycle i will stop my frequency of cycling, but not until then. i do plan on having kids

 

[pistonpump]

i understand this line of thinking, cautious cycling is without a doubt safer.

The reason i am starting another cycle is for two reasons-
1. it never takes me more than two weeks, and usually sooner, to recover from any cycle of steroids
2. i wil be using hcg, so i am really not concerned about testicular atrophy and the slow recovery it entails during post cycle therapy

doing a month of post cycle therapy to keep your HPTA working, and not doing any post cycle therapy at all/staying on year round are too very different things. when it starts taking me more than 2 weeks to bounce back from a cycle i will stop my frequency of cycling, but not until then. i do plan on having kids

I see, So you know that you are recovered after 2 weeks most of the time? What do you base that on?

This statement is true "Doing a month of post cycle therapy to keep your HPTA working, and not doing any post cycle therapy at all/staying on year round are too very different things" This statement is true and i agree. If it works for you then all the power to you, not everyone responds the same.

Should i take into consideration that i have kids already so i should just stay "on" all the time? If you are really serious just get your sperm frozen and you can stay on year round :djparty: Just kidding...

But seriously if you find you can still bounce back quickly then I guess there is no real need to stay off after you have brought back nat HPTA. As long as you dont see your recovery dropping off. Looking forward to your next cycle, are you going to keep a log?

 

[jomi822]

Before i knew that m1t was 99% supressive up to two weeks after cessation of use i only did 4 week pct's starting the day after. at the end of week 4 of pct after the first two my lipids and test values were all in normal range. i think i can recover from a few months of test while keeping my knads up and running with hcg. im a young guy, ive got a few years before the old HPTA starts giving me problems, and by that time ill be on some self proscribed HRT.:cheers: :cheers:

 

[jomi822]

Looking forward to your next cycle, are you going to keep a log?

ill be on for 22 weeks so a log would be a little much.

ill be running 875mgs of test and start out with 3 750mg shots of EQ and drop it to 400.

i may raise the eq dosage back to 750, i dont respond as well as i used to.

day 29-

incredible pumps in the gym yesterday from the igf. i couldnt close my arms all the way while doing curls, yikes.

i am experiencing some estrogen rebound, i feel like i am holding a bit too much water so today i dosed with .25mg adex. i will do so tomorrow if i feel it is necessary.

i am almost out of torem, i will miss its effects but not its taste. for those of you considering trying torm in the future the trick to getting it down is to repeatedly slam your face into a brick wall, the taste of torm wont seem so bad after that.

 

[neverstop]

thanks for keeping us all updated, this stuff is what makes this forum so awsome!