PCT for 100 day AAS cycle

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fist_9681

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this is what we got ....
TOREMIFENE CITRATE 60mg 60ml
clomid 50mg 100ml
letro 2.5mg 20ml
arimadex 1mg 60ml

my plan was

partI
clomid 150mg ed for 2 weeks
letro 1mg ed for 2 weeks

PART II
TOREMIFENE 120mg ed for 1 week
letro 1mg ed for 1 weeks

PART III
TOREMIFENE 90mg ed for 4 week
letro .25mg ed for 1 weeks

any advice would be great...
shut down hard>>>>
 
Mulletsoldier

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Your shutdown will not get much better using an AI, in Post Cycle, a non-Steroidal AI no-less. Couple the Novla/Clomid combo with a Natural Anabolic to get your HPTA back functioning regularily and your Post Cycle I imagine will be much more smooth.
 
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More info would be nice to know what you did for the 100 day cycle. Some compounds like deca and anavar have a harder shutdown that other anabolics or pro-hormones in my experience. Second, the timing of your post cycle therapy is also something that needs to be accounted for depending on what esters you were taking. post cycle therapy for a test prop cycle would start rapidly after stopping whereas test enanthe, you'd want to wait three weeks before the compound flushes from your system to start your PCT.

I'm assuming you're aware of this and factoring that in. I'd drop the clomid to 5 days, start toremifene day 1 and drop the letro. Get aromasin or ATD and run it with your toremifene instead. Aromasin will help your cholesterol profile and not have a estrogen rebound like the letro.
 
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fist_9681

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More info would be nice to know what you did for the 100 day cycle. Some compounds like deca and anavar have a harder shutdown that other anabolics or pro-hormones in my experience. Second, the timing of your post cycle therapy is also something that needs to be accounted for depending on what esters you were taking. post cycle therapy for a test prop cycle would start rapidly after stopping whereas test enanthe, you'd want to wait three weeks before the compound flushes from your system to start your post cycle therapy.

I'm assuming you're aware of this and factoring that in. I'd drop the clomid to 5 days, start toremifene day 1 and drop the letro. Get aromasin or ATD and run it with your toremifene instead. Aromasin will help your cholesterol profile and not have a estrogen rebound like the letro.

cut the deca out 3 weeks age
cut the long acting test out 10 days ago
right now I am using test prop 50mg ed and 25mg test suspension ed and letro 1mg ed
 
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fist_9681

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how would u cycle TOREMIFENE and clomid together??
 
bpmartyr

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how would u cycle TOREMIFENE and clomid together??
I wouldn't.

Just run the Toremifene solo. A single SERM is all you need. As it is your estrogen levels are already ****tanked from running that much Letro. You are not producing any natty test right now so aromatization is not going to be a problem in the near future either further making an AI unnecessary. Estrogen should be controlled, not decimated as it is necessary for joint and immune system health.

Furthermore, non steroidal AI's are suppressive and should not be used during post cycle therapy. That being said, Aromasin and ATD are steroidal AI's that CAN be used for post cycle therapy when required.

The thing that gets me is why don't you already know this? This is NOT esoteric knowledge. The slightest bit of effort put into educating yourself could have easily yielded this info BEFORE you even started a cycle. This stuff is no joke and can screw you up for life. My 2 cc's
 
jomi822

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Bpmartyr i agree that toremifene would work quite well on its own...however

chlomid has a more pronounced effect on FSH secretion that other SERMS. This is why so many people love chlomid...it will bring your boys back to the right size very quickly. Size however does not necessarily mean they are pumping out testosterone. FSH has more to do with sperm count. LH is what you really want.

This is why i believe in coupling chlomid with another SERM. nolva is loved for its ability to increase FSH and LH pulses and also to improve the lipid panel. Toremifene does the same, only it is much better at improving the lipid panel along with being less liver toxic than nolva. toremifene is just starting to be used for pct, so im sure we will have a better idea of its specific abilites later on

my pct starts in 4 days- it will be

week 1
chlomid -150 mgs
torm- 160 mgs
adex- .25 mg EOD

week 2
chlomid-100mgs
torm- 60

week 3
chlomid- 100mgs
torm- 60

week 4
chlomid- 50mgs
torm- 40 mgs
 
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fist_9681

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Bpmartyr i agree that toremifene would work quite well on its own...however

chlomid has a more pronounced effect on FSH secretion that other SERMS. This is why so many people love chlomid...it will bring your boys back to the right size very quickly. Size however does not necessarily mean they are pumping out testosterone. FSH has more to do with sperm count. LH is what you really want.

This is why i believe in coupling chlomid with another SERM. nolva is loved for its ability to increase FSH and LH pulses and also to improve the lipid panel. Toremifene does the same, only it is much better at improving the lipid panel along with being less liver toxic than nolva. toremifene is just starting to be used for post cycle therapy, so im sure we will have a better idea of its specific abilites later on

my post cycle therapy starts in 4 days- it will be

week 1
chlomid -150 mgs
torm- 160 mgs
adex- .25 mg EOD

week 2
chlomid-100mgs
torm- 60

week 3
chlomid- 100mgs
torm- 60

week 4
chlomid- 50mgs
torm- 40 mgs

looks good
 
bpmartyr

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Bpmartyr i agree that toremifene would work quite well on its own...however

chlomid has a more pronounced effect on FSH secretion that other SERMS. This is why so many people love chlomid...it will bring your boys back to the right size very quickly. Size however does not necessarily mean they are pumping out testosterone. FSH has more to do with sperm count. LH is what you really want.

This is why i believe in coupling chlomid with another SERM. nolva is loved for its ability to increase FSH and LH pulses and also to improve the lipid panel. Toremifene does the same, only it is much better at improving the lipid panel along with being less liver toxic than nolva. toremifene is just starting to be used for post cycle therapy, so im sure we will have a better idea of its specific abilites later on

my post cycle therapy starts in 4 days- it will be

week 1
chlomid -150 mgs
torm- 160 mgs
adex- .25 mg EOD

week 2
chlomid-100mgs
torm- 60

week 3
chlomid- 100mgs
torm- 60

week 4
chlomid- 50mgs
torm- 40 mgs
Agreed.

I just can't stand the sides from the Chlo. Crying sissy with blurry vision. :)

I still use good ol' Nolva only. Works for me. I'll have to give the Torm a try after my stockpile of bulk Tamoxifen Citrate is all used up, in a couple years. :D
 
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jrkarp

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Nolva has never done me wrong, and it's cheap and easy to come by.
 
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HCG is suppressive in and of itself and should NOT be run in Post Cycle . It is a good addition whilst on cycle, but definitely not during Post Cycle.

"...An uncontrolled study of 19 HIV-negative eugonadal
men, ages 23 – 57 years, administered testosterone
cypionate and nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks,
and then were treated simultaneously with a combined
regimen of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) (2500
IU/QODx16d), clomiphene citrate (50 mg PO BID x 30d)
and tamoxifen (20 mg PO QD x 45d), to restore the
HPGA...."

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf



"....So we now see, contrary to the dominating opinion of the times, that anti-estrogens alone will do little to raise testosterone levels in the early weeks of the post-cycle window. This leaves us to focus on a very different level of the HPTA in order to hasten recovery: the testes. For this we will need the injectable drug HCG. If you are not familiar with it, HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, is a prescription fertility agent that mimics the bodies own natural LH. Although the testes are equally desensitized to this drug as LH (they both work through the same mechanism), we are administering it as a measured drug and are therefore not constrained by the limits of our own LH production. We similarly can use HCG to provide a bolus dose of LH (of our choosing), which works only to augment the recovering LH levels we already have in the body. In essence we are looking to shock them with an overwhelmingly high level of LH activity, coming from both endogenous and exogenous sources. We want it to reach a level far above what our body, even when supported by anti-estrogens, could possibly do on its own. The result can be a rapid restoration of original testicular mass and functioning, which would allow normal levels of testosterone to be output much sooner than without such an ancillary program. What we are looking at now is HCG actually being the pivotal post-cycle drug, while anti-estrogens are relegated to a supportive role at best.

Understanding Post Cylce "T"*Recovery by William Llewellyn
 
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jrkarp

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That's old school - the modern thinking, by far, is that HCG should only be used on cycle to maintain testicular function. Think about it - with artificial LH floating around post cycle, the body has no reason to produce its own LH.
 
B

BioHazzard

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Of course you use it during on cycle to prevent atrophy. That is the main purpose of HCG, providing a burst of LH to jump start the testes, so they do not atrophy while on. But if he has already done the cycle and is now facing post cycle therapy with harsh shutdown and atrophy. So, what are ya gonna do? Well, he can't go back in time to fix that. Thus, he might as well follow the protocol that has been used successfully.

If he is just planning the cycle, yeah of course, use HCG while on, to prevent atrophy. Common knowledge.
 
bpmartyr

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Yeah, a run the last couple of weeks leading up to PCT may very well help out as well. My boys fill back out quickly even with 250iu.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I read the Anabolics series for the various descriptions, and definitely not for Llewellyn's protocol advice. Anyway, I digress, the study you showed cited the the HPTA recovery based on levels of Test, and Free Test % etc., Mimicking LH in the body with HCG is going to give a higher Test reading, that does not mean it is enodgenous Test--consequently that does not mean the HPTA has recovered.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Yeah, a run the last couple of weeks leading up to post cycle therapy may very well help out as well. My boys fill back out quickly even with 250iu.
Yeah, I am going to administer all the way upto the week before my last shot, but this fellow is advising using it as a part of Post Cycle Therapy.
 
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torp

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Bpmartyr i agree that toremifene would work quite well on its own...however

chlomid has a more pronounced effect on FSH secretion that other SERMS. This is why so many people love chlomid...it will bring your boys back to the right size very quickly. Size however does not necessarily mean they are pumping out testosterone. FSH has more to do with sperm count. LH is what you really want.

This is why i believe in coupling chlomid with another SERM. nolva is loved for its ability to increase FSH and LH pulses and also to improve the lipid panel. Toremifene does the same, only it is much better at improving the lipid panel along with being less liver toxic than nolva. toremifene is just starting to be used for post cycle therapy, so im sure we will have a better idea of its specific abilites later on

my post cycle therapy starts in 4 days- it will be

week 1
chlomid -150 mgs
torm- 160 mgs
adex- .25 mg EOD

week 2
chlomid-100mgs
torm- 60

week 3
chlomid- 100mgs
torm- 60

week 4
chlomid- 50mgs
torm- 40 mgs

Agreed. Clomid binds stronger in the hypothalamus than nolvadex so it's great for the first few days but too much longer and clomids increase SHBG till it slows recovery. That's why I advocate a strong dose of clomid for the first 4-5 days and then let nolva take over from there. Also nolva produces lower concentration of phosphonic acid, which is what's attributed to vision problems, than clomid so it's just another reason to switch SERMS.
 
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torp

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cut the deca out 3 weeks age
cut the long acting test out 10 days ago
right now I am using test prop 50mg ed and 25mg test suspension ed and letro 1mg ed
Well you need to figure out when you're going to start your PCT based on the esters you took. I could go into it but since you probably just want someone to give you a date instead of the "know hows" just punch your cycle into this and it will spit out your answer.

Bulk Muscle's PCT Calculator - www.bulkmuscle.com

I'd also recommend at least a 6 week PCT in your case...
 
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fist_9681

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update

partI
clomid 150mg ed for 1 weeks
letro .5mg ed for 1 weeks

PART II
TOREMIFENE 120mg ed for 1 week
clomid 100mg ed for 1 weeks

PART III
TOREMIFENE 90mg ed for 4 week
clomid 75mg ed for 4 weeks
 
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fist_9681

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When I am all done with serms, going to use

rebound reload
act.
powerfull
 

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