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Toremifene: studies with male subjects

Rostam

Well-known member
According to feedbacks I've read it seems that toremifene is working well for PCT. But now I'm confused. I was resently reading " building the perfect beast" and it seems that studies with males subjects ( not post menopausal women like the study that has been once posted) suggested that toremifene does not increase LH and FSH and does not regenerate the HPTA in males. I couldn't find these studies. Have anybody any link to them? or any thought on that?
 
sir.kevin said:
According to feedbacks I've read it seems that toremifene is working well for post cycle therapy. But now I'm confused. I was resently reading " building the perfect beast" and it seems that studies with males subjects ( not post menopausal women like the study that has been once posted) suggested that toremifene does not increase LH and FSH and does not regenerate the HPTA in males. I couldn't find these studies. Have anybody any link to them? or any thought on that?

Here is the main link:

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I found this link suggesting there is some evidence suggesting that while taking toremifene it can lower the level of fat or lipids in your blood (high levels of fat or lipids in the blood contribute to heart disease). It is thought possible that toremifene may be more effective than tamoxifen in helping to prevent heart disease. It is also thought that toremifene may help to prevent bone loss.

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One link mentions that it is ONLY available in tablet form:

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So far nothing indicating any impact on the HPTA
 
Ronin13 said:
So far nothing indicating any impact on the HPTA

there are one or two studies suggesting the negative impact of TOR on LH/FSH secreation. But all of these studies are done on menopausal cancer patients. In his book (Building perfect beast) he is referring to studies done on males.
 
sir.kevin said:
there are one or two studies suggesting the negative impact of TOR on LH/FSH secreation. But all of these studies are done on menopausal cancer patients. In his book (Building perfect beast) he is referring to studies done on males.

I have the book as well but he mentions study but provides no references... I searched for all studies involving males and toremifene... nothing came back... maybe it was speculation. I recall a few members on this forum who mentioned toremifene had an immediate impact on their shrunken jewels.... maybe I am mistaken but isn't that a positive impact on the HPTA... I could be wrong though
 
You are right. According to feedbacks we got here it should be good for HPTA regeneration but was just wondering if anybody has any idea what studies L Rea was talking about.
 
Maybe ALR can provide some details on the tests he was referencing. I tried to PM him but the option is not available.
 
sir.kevin said:
That would be good.
Thanks for PMing him.

Well, I tried to PM him but if you look at his profile, there is no option for that. Maybe a Mod can chime in here and let us know if they have the ability to contact him and direct him to this thread.

Jayhawkk?????
 
If anyone would know my guess is it would be Dr. D.

torm comes highly recommended from him. i can even recall him saying that it can causes spontaneous ejaculation. not a situation id want to deal with at work, but exciting nonetheless.

i plan on using it during my upcoming pct which stats at the end of august, and i plan on giving some feedback.
 
jomi822 said:
If anyone would know my guess is it would be Dr. D.

torm comes highly recommended from him. i can even recall him saying that it can causes spontaneous ejaculation. not a situation id want to deal with at work, but exciting nonetheless.

i plan on using it during my upcoming post cycle therapy which stats at the end of august, and i plan on giving some feedback.

Yeah, I actually pm'd Dr. D before I responded to this thread to make sure I wasn't recalling something incorrectly. He confirmed for me.
 
All I know is that after 7 months being on, Tor had me recovered quicker than my 3 monthers.

I firmly support Tor over other Serms in this regard.
 
Nothing on pubmed? I'd search myself but this rinky computer I'm on crashes when I try and do anything complex.
 
yeahright said:
Nothing on pubmed? I'd search myself but this rinky computer I'm on crashes when I try and do anything complex.

Nothing. Checked this morning. Unless something slipped past my eyes.
 
Ronin13 said:
Nothing. Checked this morning. Unless something slipped past my eyes.
Me too. I checked 24 pages on pubmed with Toremifene as search subject and all I found was 1 or 3 studies negative or neutral effect of Tor on LH/FSH secreation but only among post menopausal breast cancer patients.
Now if this is also applicable to healty males I don't understand how can we have so much good feedback on HPTA regeneration. Realy confusiong.
 
jomi822 said:
i plan on using it during my upcoming post cycle therapy which stats at the end of august, and i plan on giving some feedback.

Yes please. Your feedback would be very appretiated.
 
I've used toremifene and all I can say is the boys come back very quickly......great serm.
 
Ubiquitous said:
All I know is that after 7 months being on, Tor had me recovered quicker than my 3 monthers.

I firmly support Tor over other Serms in this regard.

Ubi, would you mind sharing some info on dosage protocal? It would be greatly appreciated....
 
just ordered toremifene, time will tell. i have 1 ques. does tor lower prolactin enough on its own or do i need to add cab?
 
From Anabolics 2006:

Farestron (Toremifene Citrate) is an estrogen receptro antagonist with mixed agonis/antagonist properties(specifically classified as a SERM). It is a non-steroidsa triphenylethylene derivative, similar in structure and action to both Nolvadex(Tamoxifen Citrate), and Clomid(clomiphene Citrate). Fareston is used for the treatment of breast cancer in postmenupausal women with estrogen receptor positive or unsure if the cancer is estrogen responsive) tumors. It works by attaching to the estrogen receptor in various tissues, blocking endogenous estrogen from exerting biological activity. This agent is the newest mixed estrogen receptro agonist/antagonist to get our attention in the bodybuilding world, and was approved by the FDA in 1997.

Anti-estrogenic drugs like Fareston are popular with bodybuilders because they help us deal with many of the "negative" aspects of high estrogen levels. Estrogen can work to hide muscle definition by increasing water retention and fat buildup for example, and can also promote gynocomastia if levels get too high. Since androgens and estrogens play opposing rols on the dispositon of body fat and the growth of mammary tissues, maximizing the ratio between these two compounds is often an important objective, particularly at times when dieting and cutting are key goals or gynecomastia is a worrry because strongly aromatized hormones such as testosterone are being supplemented. A drug like Fareston can be a key asset here.

But there are also some 'positive' attributes to estrogen that need to be taken into account as well. This included the support of 'good' high-density choleterol synthesis, increased muscle glucose utilization for tissue growth and repair, and even increased androgen receptor concentrations in various tissues. It is now understood that estrogen serves many useful purposes in men, particularly if we are looking for rapid muscle mass gain. If bulk is the goal, it is therefore usually advisable to hold off on estrogen maintenance compounds until there is a clear need for them.

All of the triphenylethylene compounds (Toremifene, Nolvadex, and Clomid) do have and added benefit of being somewhat intrinsically estrogenic in the liver. This means that while they can block estrogenic activity in the areas where we do not want it, like the breast, they replace estrogenic action in this key area of the body where we do. Estrogenic action in the liver is, of course, important in the regulation of serum cholesterol (it tends to support HDL synthesis and LDL reductions). Since steroid using bodybuilders are already dealing with the negative cardiovascular effects of these drugs, compounding the issue with Aromatase inhibitors is not always the best option. Using a drug that blocks estrogen, while at the same time supporting cholesterol values, seems much more ideal. In terms of which agent is the best in this regard, evidence does suggest that positive lipid altering benefits of toremifene are stronger than those of tamoxifen (197). If this in important to you, than Fareston may very well be your anti-estrogenic agent of choice.

At the pharmacy, thirty 60mg tablets of Fareston sell for about $100. The typical daily dose used is one tablet per day. Unfortunately, due to rapid metabolism and less than maximum potency, its not a good idea to split the dose into an every other day schedule. At 60mg per day you should notice estrogenic minimization at least on par with 20mg of tamoxifen, combined with a stronger positive effect on ones cardiovascular risk profile.

197- Antiatherogenic effects of adjuvant antiestrogens a randomized trial comparing the effects of tamoxifen and toremifene on plasma lipid levels in postmenupausal women with node-positive breast cancer. Saarto T, Blomqvist C, Ehnholm C, Taskinen MR, Elomaa I, J Clin Oncol, 1996 Feb; 14(2):429-33

That study in PubMed:
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BigVrunga said:
From Anabolics 2006:



That study in PubMed:
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I did check this one as well. Unless I didn't read it properly I don't see the conclusion on LH/FSH secretion in this study.
 
I'd like to bump this thread and see how people are doing on Tor. Any kind of rebound, sides etc.? I'm about to order pct stuff for a TRN/ZOL cycle and want the best thing in case my gyno flares up. Plus I like the sound of the boys coming back so fast. Any advise on some of the newer stuff, tor, cab, etc.?
 
axekick said:
I'd like to bump this thread and see how people are doing on Tor. Any kind of rebound, sides etc.? I'm about to order post cycle therapy stuff for a TRN/ZOL cycle and want the best thing in case my gyno flares up. Plus I like the sound of the boys coming back so fast. Any advise on some of the newer stuff, tor, cab, etc.?


I'm 8 days into my PCT using only Tor, I must say things are going great. I would recommend it.
 
I am a little over a week ing PCT now and though I am using some other supplements for PCT I am using no other drugs for PCT besides Toremifene. It is interesting because one of my other friend that did a similar cycle for a similar period of time as I did and usually recovers faster then I do, seems to be having a slow recovery in testicle size using HCG (then in a few days he will switch to Tor so that is really when his PCT begins) whereas I noticed by the 5th day on the TOR that my boys were really coming back up to size. It seems really quick but who can complain.

Mr.50

yeahright said:
Is the concensus dosing still three times that of nolva?
 
Oh yah sorry bro I forgot that and it is pretty important.

I took 120mgs per day for the first week now down to 60mgs per day. The only problem with this protocol is that it is a bit pricey but it seems to work.

Mr.50

Rostam said:
And what about the dosage? what were your dosage guys?
 
Mr.50 said:
It is interesting because one of my other friend that did a similar cycle for a similar period of time as I did and usually recovers faster then I do, seems to be having a slow recovery in testicle size using HCG
Oh yeah... I don't think I want to ask how you know that :think:
 
You go tme on that one, but I was not speaking comparatively just in our reports to each other.

Mr.50

Mass_69 said:
Oh yeah... I don't think I want to ask how you know that :think:
 
if u ever notice alri's main man makes a lot of references to studies and makes statements people like patrick arnold always try to say hes wrong but damned if his products dont deliever most if not all of the time and he seems to be right here from feedback i was gonna try tor for pc after my xmass/phera cycle in october
 
Mr.50 said:
Oh yah sorry bro I forgot that and it is pretty important.

I took 120mgs per day for the first week now down to 60mgs per day. The only problem with this protocol is that it is a bit pricey but it seems to work.

Mr.50

thought DR.d said 120 for 3 days? i dont feel like routing though that 10 page thread to find out tho...lol
 
You are probably right but I think he had economy in mind. I had some left in my last bottle of TOR so I figured I could add in a few extra days at 120 without a problem. Of course it probably is not needed.

Mr.50

wojo said:
thought DR.d said 120 for 3 days? i dont feel like routing though that 10 page thread to find out tho...lol
 
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