is nolva enough?
- 06-11-2006, 02:22 AM
is nolva enough?
i am starting a 3 or 4 week cycle of pheraplex in the near future. i am dosing at 10/20/20 or 10/20/20/30, depending on my reaction to pheraplex. i already have nolvadex(liquid). my cycle looks like this:
1: pp 10mg/ed
2: pp 20mg/ed
3: pp 20mg/ed
4: pp 30mg/ed
5: nolva 40mg/ed
6: nolva 30mg/ed
7: nolva 20mg/ed
8: nolva 20mg/ed
i have searched and have not found whether it is neccessary to add an AI (like 6oxo) or ATD (like Rebound XT) to my PCT.
To my understanding, Pheraplex does NOT aromatize, so would an AI/ATD be required in addition to the Nolva?
Just need to know if Nolva by itself is enough for PCT.
- 06-11-2006, 03:22 AM
- 06-11-2006, 03:23 AM
06-11-2006, 06:09 AM
I came to the same conclusion (i.e. AI not needed for post cycle therapy) when researching my upcoming 3 week superdrol cycle. The argument is that when coming off a cycle such as this, natural test production is low and consequently estrogen levels are also suppressed negating the need for an aromatase inhibitor.
One thing I would be interested in hearing back from the more experienced members is, would something like a 6-oxo be useful immediately following post cycle therapy? In Millerman's scenario, he could start supplementing with 6-oxo immediately after finishing up his 4 week post cycle therapy with Nolva. Would this be of any benefit?
06-11-2006, 08:49 AM
06-11-2006, 11:38 PM
Im not an expert but I would say no.. I am sure it would do some towards raising test but I dont feel that it is in anyway a substitute for a SERM..Originally Posted by skull
06-11-2006, 11:51 PM
It could be, an effective post PCT stack could be 6oxo, or even straight ATD coupled with a natural test booster. You are right on the AI not being needed for a non-aromatizing compound though, it is not needed. For my upcoming 10 week cycle I plan to implement Novla, PFull, Retain, a NO product, Maca and some other goodies immediately followed by 6oxo/PFull/ActivaTE to ensure I don't have any rebound or Test lag.Originally Posted by Ninjo
06-12-2006, 05:26 AM
Thanks Mulletsoldier. Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense to use an AI following a cycle that suppresses your natural test production and consequently, the amount of estrogen in your body. I was thinking the use of an AI (or ATD) post post cycle therapy might reduce the risk of the "delayed gyno" phenomenon I had read about with superdrol.
06-12-2006, 06:24 AM
so Mulletsoldier, how does ur post cycle look normally or how does the post cycle ur planning look like? if u dont mind me asking.
06-12-2006, 08:09 AM
i'm planning on doing a PP cycle soon,
along the lines of
depending how i feel on it.
just wanted to check what nolva doses i should use, got caps at 20 mg each so would 40/40/20/20 be fine?
06-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Good plan. What made you decide on 6-OXO vs. an ATD product? Have you had good experience with the Androstenetrione in the past? Going the transdermal delivery route? I am sure all this will get discussed in your inevitable log on aforementioned cycle but I am bored and curious. Bad combination I know.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
06-12-2006, 09:32 AM
These guys gave you good info. The use of an AI is definitely not needed, plus Nolvadex or Toremifene is much better on the lipid profile and helping to recover that.
Even if the cycle did aromatise, the use of an AI even in the short term wouldn't matter all that much and is usually only used "during" an aromatising cycle and usually ones that are longer term.
As for the support supplements you have listed, check out my signature, we offer Cycle Support, which has everything you have listed there plus some (minus the oil, which obviously can't be a powder) and as for the CoQ10, we have idebenone instead, which is a more potent variant of CoQ10.
06-12-2006, 10:57 AM
Awhile back I had tried the Androstenetrione just as a natural stack with some Trib/Fenu/Cissus and maybe it was just the weakness of the Saponins but it still completely destroyed my libido. Obviously, not something I would like to go through right after PCT. So, I chose 6oxo hoping any libido issues would not be as prominent, but hopefully still control any slight rebound issues I might have. And I think I will go TD, might throw some other stuff in there.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
06-12-2006, 10:58 AM
I'm going to be using Novla, though I want to use Torem, PFull, Trib, Fenu, Maca, Retain and a CEE or NO product.Originally Posted by SrT4u2Nv
06-12-2006, 11:40 AM
FYI, Androstenetrione = 6-OXO. 6, 17-Keto-etiocholeve-3-ol tetrahydropyranol = ATD.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
I have found the libido issue to be directly correlated with dosage. I am thinking a transdermal ATD would be great with the sustained release and better control of dosage vs the standard 25mg cap.
6-OXO gives me acne something fierce, that is why I asked if you had used it before.
06-12-2006, 11:42 AM
Oh sorry, I had a brain fart. Another reason is cost, I work at a supplement store and 6oxo costs me a grand total of 4 dollars.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
06-12-2006, 11:44 AM
It's all good bro. Can't beat 4 bucks.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
06-13-2006, 02:34 AM
thanks for your help guys.
but i have one more question. i am hearing a lot about lower back bumps. are these "pumps," just cramps? do you only experience them while working the back? my family has a history of back problems so i abstain from most exercises that work my back hard.
so what exactly is a "lower back pump?"
06-13-2006, 12:47 PM
They aren't really cramps it is just a lot of blood flow to the area, which HURTS sometimes. Mostly when you are actually lifting but I noticed at times even if I was sitting funny my lower back muscles would kill! I couldn't sit still.
Taurine is the way to go for this. I would say at least 3g if it is bothering you, some go higher, but obviously find what works for you to minimize cost.
06-15-2006, 07:46 PM
For my last PP cycle (10/20/20/30) for pct I just used nolva along with Lean Xtreme and CEE. Worked great for me.
I would like to try Activate in my next pct though...just for kicks.
06-23-2006, 02:04 PM
I'm finishing my last week of pct (Ran PP 10/20/20/20), and am using Activate. I love the stuff. I've actually continued to get stronger throughout and hold much of my gains. needless to say, i'm pretty happy with it. I also used LX and RXT for this. Next time going nolva.Originally Posted by -2z-
06-23-2006, 03:53 PM
What will you PCT with the nolva next time? Sounds like you will use the ActivaTe with it? Anything else?Originally Posted by djsauce
08-11-2006, 09:25 AM
After my pp stack (actually pheradrol) ran at 10, 10, 20, 30 and pct (nolva), I was planning on running Reloaded and Activate for post post cycle therapy. Sounds like some have had good results with the Activate during pct. Any thoughts on which would be more beneficial. I know that the AI is not needed during pct, but should I run the Activate with my nolva?
09-04-2006, 08:14 AM
if you got the money it wouldnt hurt. Get nolva in pill form, the liquid is not fun.Originally Posted by getbustered
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