[william3162]

There are many posts making deductions about how effective mathylated ATD products might be during PCT, but there are few summarizing past experiences with these products (e.g. Anablic Xtreme PCT and ALRI Ultra Hotter). Can you guys porvide fedback on these products based on actual experiences?

[skull]

Originally Posted by william3162

----------There are many posts making deductions about how effective mathylated ATD products might be during post cycle therapy, but there are few summarizing past experiences with these products (e.g. Anablic Xtreme PCT and ALRI Ultra Hotter). Can you guys porvide fedback on these products based on actual experiences?

Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.

Ellinwood WE, Hess DL, Roselli CE, Spies HG, Resko JA.

Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.

PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[skull]

theres you proof ---no?

[yeahright]

Originally Posted by skull

Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.

Ellinwood WE, Hess DL, Roselli CE, Spies HG, Resko JA.

Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.

PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I've always wondered why mATD didn't catch on. Everyone and their brother put out an ATD product but only ALRI (and licensed to AX) went with the mATD (that I'm aware of). Rebound Reloaded has apparently gone with completely different compounds alltogether.

I'm actually taking Ultra Hotter right now, but it is somewhat odd that the industry as a whole didn't embrace it. Makes me wonder if I missed something (some report/study).

[CHAPS]

I found regular ATD worked better than Methylated ATD, i used Ultra Hotter 6 bottles actually and ya it's great stuff, but Novadex Xt is even better and it's literally the EXACT same formula as the orginal Ultra Hot.

[skull]

Originally Posted by CHAPS

I found regular ATD worked better than Methylated ATD, i used Ultra Hotter 6 bottles actually and ya it's great stuff, but Novadex Xt is even better and it's literally the EXACT same formula as the orginal Ultra Hot.

---- well AX put out a study that said most will respond to MATD better but there are some who do not.Also depends how your using it ---PCT-- or stand alone

[CHAPS]

I used it as both and regular ATD just seemed to work better.

[bearmeat]

Originally Posted by skull

---- well AX put out a study that said most will respond to MATD better but there are some who do not.Also depends how your using it ---post cycle therapy-- or stand alone

Which is supposedly better for PCT or stand alone? mATD or regular ATD?

[skull]

Originally Posted by bearmeat

Which is supposedly better for post cycle therapy or stand alone? mATD or regular ATD?

---My choice at this time is mATD

[yeahright]

Bloody hell. The write-up for ALRI's Jungle Warfare contains the following:

ADED (5a-dehydro-etiocholane-1,4,6-trien-3-one-17-ol)
Many are aware of both the positive and negative physiological issues relating to the naturally occurring aromatase inhibitory ATD. Most of the benefits are the result of one of its physiological 17-OH metabolites. ADED is a natural non-androgenic metabolite of ATD with improved oral bio-availability. Please, do not confuse this with ATD itself as the difference is very important both in structure and action: Some may recall this one from our Ultra H.O.T.ter matrix but to recap…By modulating estrogen build-up the negative feed-back look to the hypothalamus is put in check.

This would indicate that this same chemical (the variation on ATD) is in Ultra Hotter AND in Jungle Warfare. However, the cehmical names on the two bottles are different....and I don't know enough chemistry to figure out if they are saying the same thing in different ways.

I was trying to answer the question about which would be better for standalone (and since JW is meant as a stand alone product, I thought it might be useful to know if they were including mATD as indicated by the write-up).

Anyone know?

[skull]

Originally Posted by yeahright

Bloody hell. The write-up for ALRI's Jungle Warfare contains the following:

ADED (5a-dehydro-etiocholane-1,4,6-trien-3-one-17-ol)
Many are aware of both the positive and negative physiological issues relating to the naturally occurring aromatase inhibitory ATD. Most of the benefits are the result of one of its physiological 17-OH metabolites. ADED is a natural non-androgenic metabolite of ATD with improved oral bio-availability. Please, do not confuse this with ATD itself as the difference is very important both in structure and action: Some may recall this one from our Ultra H.O.T.ter matrix but to recap…By modulating estrogen build-up the negative feed-back look to the hypothalamus is put in check.

This would indicate that this same chemical (the variation on ATD) is in Ultra Hotter AND in Jungle Warfare. However, the cehmical names on the two bottles are different....and I don't know enough chemistry to figure out if they are saying the same thing in different ways.

I was trying to answer the question about which would be better for standalone (and since JW is meant as a stand alone product, I thought it might be useful to know if they were including mATD as indicated by the write-up).

Anyone know?

-----IMO I think these guys are playin with us, they make up these crazy names ,expect us to trust them,then they stop makin it. If it wasnt for the pub med study I posted I wouldnt use ----but thats just my 2 cents

[CDONDICI]

Is libido still an issue with mATD?

[yeahright]

Originally Posted by CDONDICI

Is libido still an issue with mATD?

I have NOT experienced any libido problems with mATD.....but then again, I never experienced much liido problems with ATD (maybe a tad less desire). This question would be best answered by someone who had problems with ATD and then tried mATD.

[skull]

Originally Posted by yeahright

I have NOT experienced any libido problems with mATD.....but then again, I never experienced much liido problems with ATD (maybe a tad less desire). This question would be best answered by someone who had problems with ATD and then tried mATD.

----I have used both for some extended lengths of time and only noticed slight problems with libido---ATD stays in your system for a while and may permently change your T-E ratio[acording to dd]I did have a case of THO--[titty hard on]for a while after stopping use but am fine now

[okboy63]

At 3 caps a day of Uhotter and ramping down libidio was shot.
At 1 cap a day libido increased.