PCT without SERM

[remarc]

Is it a SERM really a must for a PCT therapy after one month of Superdrol, assuming I am using all the other products suggested ( Rebound, Activate, Fenugreek, DHEA etc. etc )?
I know from reading previous posts on this topic you guys are saying its good to have some Nolva at hand just in case...but what if I dont? Whats the worst thing that can happen after only 30 days of Superdrol and no SERM? Is everybody here using SERM in PCT therapy?

 

[PumpingIron]

SERMS are a must, especially after a SD 4 weeker.

 

[idunk42]

There's no reason not to have a SERM for post cycle therapy. It doesnt make sense not to use one.

 

[PumpingIron]

You are running the risk of gyno, severe shutdown, and very much lowered T production...

 

[xtraflossy]

There is no excuse for you not to have it just in case.
It is (in some cases) cheaper then other PCT products. Its about $30.00.
Check out the board sponsors.

While you can get away without it, it it not advised. You know that "just in case" everyone says,.... that only has to happen once before you have it on hand at ALL times. (PCT, in your car, at the movies, on dates,...):nutkick:

In other words, why chance it.

 

[myfathersboy]

Naw....SERM is not really needed....I mean sh1t....Imagine how much fun you're gonna have with your new boobies...All of your freinds will start showing up at your house at all hours of the night wanting to play basketball....and think of all the attention you'll get at the gym while running on the treadmill!! Nothing but good times baby!!! Think about the fun you can have in the shower....MMMMMM, soapy man boobs......

 

[Ronin13]

Doode... that was funny as sh1t and it is going in my sig

:icon_lol:

Naw....SERM is not really needed....I mean sh1t....Imagine how much fun you're gonna have with your new boobies...All of your freinds will start showing up at your house at all hours of the night wanting to play basketball....and think of all the attention you'll get at the gym while running on the treadmill!! Nothing but good times baby!!! Think about the fun you can have in the shower....MMMMMM, soapy man boobs......

 

[myfathersboy]

Doode... that was funny as sh1t and it is going in my sig

:icon_lol:

Aw, shucks....

I'm getting all misty-eyed over here....I said something sig-worthy!!!!

 

[rocketscientist]

You are running the risk of gyno, severe shutdown, and very much lowered T production...

... where the latter two may cause you to lose all the gains you made.

On the other hand I believe drd said that he doesn't use a serm after superdrol to bring t-levels back up. But then, why take the risks?

And then there is still the possible issue with gyno.

 

[william3162]

You have to be really stupid to not run a SERM in a PCT of Superdrol.

 

[rocketscientist]

You have to be really stupid to not run a SERM in a post cycle therapy of Superdrol.

Dr. D post cycle therapy question

... After an superdrol 4 weeker I did, all I used for PCT was Fen/DHEA for a 4 week PCT...

3,4,5,6 pills on the fen (which is as long as it works, 4 wks max) and 100mg morning + 100mg more at noon DHEA. Works great for low suppression 4 wk or less cycles. So basically, Nolva or RXT would probably work comparably well.

So - what should I conclude from this...

Nah - just kidding...

 

[BDAWG]

You know, I don't understand why EVERYONE preaches SERM use. Me and a buddy of mine each ran 4 week Superdrol cycles about a 8 months ago. Neither one of us used a SERM, just RXT and Lean Extreme. Neither one of us had any ill sides.

About 2 months ago, we ran the same cycle, except this time I used Nolva, PCT, and Retain, and he used only PCT and Retain. Now I have gyno, and he's fine. What gives?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

That is interesting, but most likely due to the Superdrol not the Novla. I also had a friend that got gyno on his second SD cycle, though I am not implying anything because the 'G' word is a heavy label to throw around. How, and at what point did your start dosing your Tamixofen?

 

[myfathersboy]

You know, I don't understand why EVERYONE preaches SERM use. Me and a buddy of mine each ran 4 week Superdrol cycles about a 8 months ago. Neither one of us used a SERM, just RXT and Lean Extreme. Neither one of us had any ill sides.

About 2 months ago, we ran the same cycle, except this time I used Nolva, post cycle therapy, and Retain, and he used only PCT and Retain. Now I have gyno, and he's fine. What gives?

Do a search on 'superdrol and delayed gyno'.....

Also, trying to compare your results with a friends' can not be considered 'evidence'....everyone is different, the majority of the bodybuilding population have found that using SERM during PCT signifigantly reduces the chances of gyno and helps keep gains. Period.

Will you definately get gyno from a 4 week cycle? No. Will you definately not get gyno using a SERM. No, there are no guarantees. But why risk it?

 

[BDAWG]

Do a search on 'superdrol and delayed gyno'.....

Also, trying to compare your results with a friends' can not be considered 'evidence'....everyone is different, the majority of the bodybuilding population have found that using SERM during post cycle therapy signifigantly reduces the chances of gyno and helps keep gains. Period.

Will you definately get gyno from a 4 week cycle? No. Will you definately not get gyno using a SERM. No, there are no guarantees. But why risk it?

Yes, I've heard ALL about Superdrol and delayed gyno, no need to read it again.

I never said comparing my buddy's results with mine should be considered evidence. I am well aware everyone's body is different. I was simply stating that a SERM will NOT necessarily keep anyone from getting gyno, and I don't think it's a "must" in everyones PCT. It's worked just fine for me without it before. Only stating my opinion here. No need to discuss it further. I'll never take Pro-hormones again, this **** ****ed my body up even after proper PCT.

To Mulletsolider, I started dosing 40/40/20/20 the day after my last Superdrol, also ramped down everything else I was taking. Everything seemed to be doing fine, kept most gains, the boys were back in full effect and libido was through the roof. A week later I get a lump, and am still battling with it.

 

[myfathersboy]

Yes, I've heard ALL about Superdrol and delayed gyno, no need to read it again.

I never said comparing my buddy's results with mine should be considered evidence. I am well aware everyone's body is different. I was simply stating that a SERM will NOT necessarily keep anyone from getting gyno, and I don't think it's a "must" in everyones post cycle therapy. It's worked just fine for me without it before. Only stating my opinion here. No need to discuss it further. I'll never take Pro-hormones again, this **** ****ed my body up even after proper PCT.

To Mulletsolider, I started dosing 40/40/20/20 the day after my last Superdrol, also ramped down everything else I was taking. Everything seemed to be doing fine, kept most gains, the boys were back in full effect and libido was through the roof. A week later I get a lump, and am still battling with it.

Geez....Take it easy gangsta, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything....I seem to have offended in some way, not intentional I assure you

As for your continued bout with gyno, do a search in...PCT forum, I think? Anyway, there is a great thread in which DR.D Helps a young man clear up a case of gyno much like yours...You could probably follow nearly the same protocol that this chap did and have a good chance of clearing up this little gyno problem of yours. Just some food for thought. Good luck.

 

[BDAWG]

Yeah, sorry man. It's hard to read tone of voice over the internet. No hard feelings, and thanks. I'll try to look for that thread.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

I,v done two S1+, one super and one mohn, with only rxt and metacourt with no gyno or loss of gains, but I always dose on the low side on all my cycles. JMO

 

[rocketscientist]

Hey bdawd - just to be very clear here - you got gyno a week after you stopped taking nolva, right (i.e. not during PCT).

And I agree with you - the use of Nolva at least for SD pct would be almost solely to help jumpstart the HPTA, not for estrogen control since that should not be much of an issue with SD and it would do little for delayed gyno, since once you stop taking a SERM... (also I should note that there are reports that combining tamoxifen with DHEA, as Dr.D suggests, may impair the effectiveness of tamoxifen for gyno... at least that's been observed in cancer tissue).

That said, the apparent gyno issue with SD seems to work indirectly over pathways other then simple conversion to estrogen, so Nolva may help, but since there is no good theory it's really hard to say... Anyway - hard to speculate about anything here since there are no blood tests posted from those getting gyno (also don't know what you show up since most will be treating their gyno with a SERM and I don't know how that will show up in blood tests )

Hmm - Did anyone ever look at blood tests follwing an SD cycle for which delayed gyno has be observed. But anyway, I think too many smarter and more knowledgeable people have looked at this already...

 

[myfathersboy]

No worries mate!!!!!

Have a burger:burger:

 

[wildman536]

i just love all these posts about how a SERM is ALWAYS needed in PCT. now im not totally against use of them but from all the research and reading i have done on the subject sometimes if there are no symptoms you are better off not using one (nolva, Clo) keep in mind i am not saying that you do not have to do PCT but if you can get away with something that has less sides then by all means do it!!

 

[remarc]

From all the posts, I can jump to the conclusion that a SERM in PCT for superdrol is of great help for jump starting the HPTA and less for gyno related issues.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[wildman536]

yes you are correct as far as the HPTA and as far as the gyno related issues it is quite unknown the extent to which the "Delayed Gyno" pops up, but you may want to have some on hand for that also.