[ndfan]

I'm on my last week of a PP cycle taking support supplements with it. I was ready with my pct when I posted on another board about my pct and was told not to take AX retain or PCT because of delayed gyno so I've been hopping boards and reading threads about it and now just confused and ready to pull my hair out but why help that along Can you give me some input on my pct and tell me what you think? I will be running a SD cycle in sept and was also wondering if this is a good pct for that also?
thanks.

wk 1&2
nolva 40mg ed
AX retain 3 pills ed
AX PCT 3 pills ed

wk 3&4
nolva 20mg ed
AX retain 2 pill wk3/1 pill wk4 ed
AX PCT- same as retain

will also run milk thistle, hawthorne berry, flax seed oil, B complex w/vit C, CLA, and was reading about DHEA 200mg ed 2weeks then 100mg weeks but not sure about that dosage

[WannaGro]

Check post #4 here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...verse-adt.html

[ndfan]

ok, so if I'm looking at this correctly I should run like this.

wk1 clomid 150mg, AX retain 1 pill, AX PCT 3 pill, DHEA 200mg (daily)
wk2 clomid 100mg, retain 1, PCT 2, DHEA 200mg
wk3 nolva 60mg, retain 2, PCT 1 DHEA 200mg
wk 4 nolva 40mg, retain 2, DHEA 100mg
wk5 nolva 20mg, retain 3, DHEA 100mg
wk6 retain 3, DHEA 100mg

[WannaGro]

That looks pretty good, just a few questions. 1) how long was your PP cycle? 2) do you have research Tamox or real Nolva. 3) Why are you ramping up the retain, I just run it constant at 3 pills, since it is used to reduce cortisol after a cycle. If you wanted to conserve by ramping I would start high and ramp down, since cortisol would be highest at the beginning of PCT. 4) As far as dosage for the AX PCT, I am unsure on dosing as I have only used regular ATD and I believe that it has methyl ATD, but assuming that it is similar then you would ramp it up toward the end. So like 1/2/3/4 pills this is generally how the ATD is ran and that is what was discussed in the link I posted.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by ndfan

ok, so if I'm looking at this correctly I should run like this.

wk1 clomid 150mg, AX retain 1 pill, AX PCT 3 pill, DHEA 200mg (daily)
wk2 clomid 100mg, retain 1, PCT 2, DHEA 200mg
wk3 nolva 60mg, retain 2, PCT 1 DHEA 200mg
wk 4 nolva 40mg, retain 2, DHEA 100mg
wk5 nolva 20mg, retain 3, DHEA 100mg
wk6 retain 3, DHEA 100mg

its a 4wk 20mg pp cycle.
ok, for the ratain i'll keep at 3 pills for all six weeks and the AX pct I'll go 1 pill wk1&2 3&4 2pills and 5&6 3pill or should i just keep PCT 3 pill for the six weeks like retain? Originally thats what i was gonna do but the delayed gyno info has me a little concerned. I have some tamoxifen citrate 50ml 20mg/ml I wasn't going to run the clomid but after reading post4 on running serm inverse I figured it couldn't hurt. So I ordered it today So I will have for start of pct on may 3rd

[WannaGro]

if it was only a 4 week cycle then you don't really need a 6 week PCT, it wouldn't hurt, but is proably not needed. The running the clomid and nolva seperate is nice, because when I used to run them together I would really mess with my mood. As far as the AX PCT goes, I would think that you could just sub it in for the ATD (RXT in the other thread) and that would be ok, but like I said earlier, I don't know the actual amount of methyl ATD in PCT since it is in a 'complex' and I also am unsure of how it compares to ATD in effectiveness.

The tamoxifen citrate, needs to be dosed higher, because the dosages in the other post are refering to actual Nolva, since the citrate makes up about 1/3 of the weight, you need to take more to get those dosages. So you would dose 90/60/30 of what you have to equal 60/40/20 of actual Nolva. Tahts why I asked which kind you had.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by WannaGro

if it was only a 4 week cycle then you don't really need a 6 week PCT, it wouldn't hurt, but is proably not needed. The running the clomid and nolva seperate is nice, because when I used to run them together I would really mess with my mood. As far as the AX PCT goes, I would think that you could just sub it in for the ATD (RXT in the other thread) and that would be ok, but like I said earlier, I don't know the actual amount of methyl ATD in PCT since it is in a 'complex' and I also am unsure of how it compares to ATD in effectiveness.

The tamoxifen citrate, needs to be dosed higher, because the dosages in the other post are refering to actual Nolva, since the citrate makes up about 1/3 of the weight, you need to take more to get those dosages. So you would dose 90/60/30 of what you have to equal 60/40/20 of actual Nolva. Tahts why I asked which kind you had.

I thought a 6wk PCT was long for a 4wk pp cycle I really dont't want to run it that long if I don't have to. How else do you suggest to run it? I'm planning a SD 4wk cycle in the fall but with all the delayed gyno posts about it I might just sell it instead but would that pct be good for that also in case I do run it? thanks for all you help with this.

[RipdnTxs]

Are u prone to gyno, if not your concern about it may be a little overblown, IMO, u may want to take ester-c(2grams ED) during pct as well, I beleive Dr. D. recommended this, I had very slight nipple sensitivity in SD and S1+ and the Ester-C helped, I have only used Rebound and Metacourt for my PCT with no problems......

[WannaGro]

Maybe something like:
1: Clomid 150mg, Retain 3 caps, PCT 1cap, DHEA 200mg
2: Clomid 100mg, Nolva 90mg, Retain 3 caps, PCT 2cap, DHEA 200mg
3: Nolva 60mg, Retain 3 caps, PCT 3cap, DHEA 150mg
4: Nolva 30mg, Retain 3 caps, PCT 4cap, DHEA 100mg
I think this should work fine. It should also be ok for an SD cycle as well.

[ndfan]

Again, thanks guys for all the help and info with this. This is my first cycle of PP and just want everything to go as it should. I will post and let you know how its going

[WannaGro]

No problem. Good luck.

[ripped218]

Originally Posted by RipdnTxs

Are u prone to gyno, if not your concern about it may be a little overblown, IMO, u may want to take ester-c(2grams ED) during pct as well, I beleive Dr. D. recommended this, I had very slight nipple sensitivity in SD and S1+ and the Ester-C helped, I have only used Rebound and Metacourt for my PCT with no problems......

Vitamin B6 would also be of good use.

[ndfan]

I got this bottle of protest by NutraBiotics free with my DHEA and was wondering if anyone has used it, does it work and when should it be taken during pct? If you guys think it garbage I'm just gonna toss it.


ProTest - Testosterone Preservation System
ProTest works at the site of receptors on steroid sensitive cells to preserve testosterone and boost testosterone levels. ProTest helps to locally inhibit 5-alpha reductase and 3-ketosteroid reductase which are enzymes involved in converting testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), thus preserving active testosterone. Conversion of testosterone to DHT is an unwanted effect because DHT has been linked to:
Benign prostatic hyperplasia
Hirsutism (too much hair in the wrong places)
Male pattern baldness or hair loss.


Supplemental Facts:

Ingredients 2 caplets supply % Daily Value
Niacin 50 mg 250
Zinc 20 mg 133
Testosterone Preservation Blend 870 mg *
Saw Palmetto Berry Standardized Extract (85-95% sterols and fatty acids), Cranberry & Chokeberry Juice Concentrates (25% quinic acid), Cholestatin™ (purified plant phytosterols, 50% beta-sitosterol, 25% campersterol. 20% fuctosterol), Yohimbe Bark Standardized extract (10% alkaloids), Korean Ginseng Root Standardized Extract (4% ginsenosides), Avena Sativa (green oat straw), Stinging Nettle Leaf, Muira puama Stem, Ho-shou Root

Recommended dosage: 2 to 4 caplets daily.
*Daily value not established

[WannaGro]

Originally Posted by ndfan

I got this bottle of protest by NutraBiotics free with my DHEA and was wondering if anyone has used it, does it work and when should it be taken during pct? If you guys think it garbage I'm just gonna toss it.


ProTest - Testosterone Preservation System
ProTest works at the site of receptors on steroid sensitive cells to preserve testosterone and boost testosterone levels. ProTest helps to locally inhibit 5-alpha reductase and 3-ketosteroid reductase which are enzymes involved in converting testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), thus preserving active testosterone. Conversion of testosterone to DHT is an unwanted effect because DHT has been linked to:
Benign prostatic hyperplasia
Hirsutism (too much hair in the wrong places)
Male pattern baldness or hair loss.


Supplemental Facts:

Ingredients 2 caplets supply % Daily Value
Niacin 50 mg 250
Zinc 20 mg 133
Testosterone Preservation Blend 870 mg *
Saw Palmetto Berry Standardized Extract (85-95% sterols and fatty acids), Cranberry & Chokeberry Juice Concentrates (25% quinic acid), Cholestatin™ (purified plant phytosterols, 50% beta-sitosterol, 25% campersterol. 20% fuctosterol), Yohimbe Bark Standardized extract (10% alkaloids), Korean Ginseng Root Standardized Extract (4% ginsenosides), Avena Sativa (green oat straw), Stinging Nettle Leaf, Muira puama Stem, Ho-shou Root

Recommended dosage: 2 to 4 caplets daily.
*Daily value not established

I wouldn't toss it, some of the herbal stuff isn't bad. It would be nice to know how much of each ingredient there is(I hate proprietary matrices), the Saw palmetto is supposed to help with prostate, the muira puma is what is in Powerfull, Avena Sativa also is a decent test booster. You could run it along with post cycle.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by WannaGro

I wouldn't toss it, some of the herbal stuff isn't bad. It would be nice to know how much of each ingredient there is(I hate proprietary matrices), the Saw palmetto is supposed to help with prostate, the muira puma is what is in Powerfull, Avena Sativa also is a decent test booster. You could run it along with post cycle.

Cool, thanks

[ndfan]

3rd pct day and damn, clomid tastes like crap, its just nasty. I've been taking it with some juice and just gulping it down. The worst after taste ever. Hell I'd rather drink some mad dog 20/20

[WannaGro]

Clomid does taste like crap, but tamoxifen is much worse, I'm on day 2 of my PCT. So second day of Clomid for me. Hope everything goes well keep me updated.

[ndfan]

I found some mint flavored tamoxifen from another site, I hope it's not as bad as the clomid. So far so good with the PCT.