Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle?

**smeton_yea** · 04-21-2006, 07:17 AM

Over at bodybuilding.com forums big cat and others are saying to not use an AI or atd after a superdrol Cycle(possibily other cycles too) and to use a SERM or hgc.

They say the AI is not good for you, and will cause gyno and estrogen rebond after you come off. this thread is long but "big Cat" from bodybuilding.com explains why he thinks this is the case, and he went to school to research/study this kind of stuff. He said superdrol is already an ai on its own.

Ive completed a 5 week superdrol cycle i started novedex xt by gaspari nuritionin week four of my superdrol cycle, and have been doing novedex xt for three weeks now. i dont want to harm myself or my hormone levels and i want to get the proper info out there so people can have the best possible expirences. please any information that is helpful , please contribute

HERES THE THREAD http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=670729

dadream · 04-21-2006, 04:51 PM

After reading the mentioned thread does anyone have any of their own experiences? Anyone here get the infamous SD delayed gyno? I myself have and I am currently taking the letro route. I've been taking it for 2 +weeks with some decrease in size on lumps. Any others trying anything with any success??

**jmh80** · 04-21-2006, 07:54 PM

Big Cat has no credibility in my mind.

Dude was on BB.com saying SD wasn't a steroid. And was hugly toxic and some other sh*t.

I didn't read his thread - I'm not gonna. I've got no respect for him after telling Dr. D to "drop dead and be sterile" or some childish sh*t.

It comes down to a debate about some high level science and I can't quite discern myself.
But, no one in the "don't take an AI camp" has yet to show anything on a steroidal AI - which is what ATD is.
So, until someone can show me research on a steroidal AI (not just a regular AI like arimidex) - I'll continue to use ATD/Reloaded with Toremifene/Tamox in my PCT's.

**rocketscientist** · 04-21-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeton_yea

...For Doctor D and others

I think DR.D knows...

**jmh80** · 04-21-2006, 08:17 PM

Please excuse my post.

That was poor. I don't want this board to turn into BB.com where flamers reign and everything is a piss and moan match.

BC - if you read this - sorry.

I've got bloodwork that showed a big increase in total testosterone and an increase in free testosterone by taking Rebound Reloaded and Activate.
If anyone doubts weather these guys raise test production, I can put it to rest.

Edit - the bloodwork is posted from Reloaded...

**not_big_enuf** · 04-21-2006, 11:15 PM

Has he really doubted that AIs increase test? No way... that's ludicris (LOL at the spelling).

I think I could find hundreds of blood tests supporting this...

I'll continue to take my AI and use the good Dr. D's advice. I respect him until the end of time and he's proven time and time again he knows his ****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmh80

Please excuse my post.

That was poor. I don't want this board to turn into BB.com where flamers reign and everything is a piss and moan match.

BC - if you read this - sorry.

I've got bloodwork that showed a big increase in total testosterone and an increase in free testosterone by taking Rebound Reloaded and Activate.
If anyone doubts weather these guys raise test production, I can put it to rest.

Edit - the bloodwork is posted from Reloaded...

ripped218 · 04-21-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_big_enuf

Has he really doubted that AIs increase test? No way... that's ludicris (LOL at the spelling).

I think I could find hundreds of blood tests supporting this...

I'll continue to take my AI and use the good Dr. D's advice. I respect him until the end of time and he's proven time and time again he knows his ****.

**Beowulf** · 04-22-2006, 10:11 AM

I've used nolva and ATD in PCT and did not have any delayed gyno. I think Dr. D already argued Big Cat over this. They simply disagree. I just know that it didn't effect me.

**DR.D** · 04-23-2006, 09:13 AM

The problem I think with BC is that he gets his facts mixed up sometimes. Also, he allows his personal hang-ups and short comings to cloud his advice. Bottom line, RXT is good for PCT. It's not only a steroidal AI, it's a special steroidal AI with the added LH boosting effect of an anti-androgen. I do not recommend other AI's during PCT (like the enzyme inhibitors letro and anastrazole) because rebound is possible. With steroidal AI's, rebound is not possible. Also, a SERM should be preferentially stacked, and the RXT dose reduced accordingly. I also suggest adjuncts like fenugreek, ACT and DHEA in my PCTs. BC doesn't like that either, but if you take my advise just as I give it, you are unlikely to have any problems and get a great PCT response. BC doesn't even lift weights himself, but I've been training since I was 14 years old. Although BC has expressed his desire to see me dead, God bless him anyway. Maybe one day he will grow up and start to acknowledge his issues.

**Beowulf** · 04-23-2006, 12:36 PM

Smelton, if you want to see how megalomaniacal BC is, read the debate with Dr. Evil in the "BEST OF" section on bb.com, discussing Nolva vs. Clomid. Instead of an intelligent debate, BC belittles a guy who obviously has great
knowledge of the subject. He is obnoxious.

Dr. D has given dozens of guys here very specific PCT advice, but I've never seen anyone post about delayed gyno if they've followed D's protocol.

Dr. D and BC have argued about DHEA in PCT. BC swears it is suppressive. I used it and bounced back well. Tons of guys here will report the same. Plus, DHEA makes you feel great.

ripped218 · 04-23-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR.D

The problem I think with BC is that he gets his facts mixed up sometimes. Also, he allows his personal hang-ups and short comings to cloud his advice. Bottom line, RXT is good for PCT. It's not only a steroidal AI, it's a special steroidal AI with the added LH boosting effect of an anti-androgen. I do not recommend other AI's during PCT (like the enzyme inhibitors letro and anastrazole) because rebound is possible. With steroidal AI's, rebound is not possible. Also, a SERM should be preferentially stacked, and the RXT dose reduced accordingly. I also suggest adjuncts like fenugreek, ACT and DHEA in my PCTs. BC doesn't like that either, but if you take my advise just as I give it, you are unlikely to have any problems and get a great PCT response. BC doesn't even lift weights himself, but I've been training since I was 14 years old. Although BC has expressed his desire to see me dead, God bless him anyway. Maybe one day he will grow up and start to acknowledge his issues.

**Basso** · 04-23-2006, 01:14 PM

I read the whole post over at BB.com, it was ludicrously childish. Anyway I followed Dr. D's protocol and I was very pleased, I will use the same (with minor tweaks) for my next cycle, regardless of what you read on paper "Real World" results speak for themselves!
It's threads like that that really cause confusion when we should be keeping things simple as possible, I'm just waiting for that home hormone test to come out!

sly · 04-23-2006, 02:22 PM

I've used Novedex Xt 3 times for pct after Superdrol cycles and have had no negative issues just positive results.

joshua45stang · 04-23-2006, 06:59 PM

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

**DR.D** · 04-23-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua45stang

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

Perhaps you ended PCT a bit too early. I think that's the biggest issue in most cases of this. Plus, use a little DHEA next time!