Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle?

[John Smeton]

Over at bodybuilding.com forums big cat and others are saying to not use an AI or atd after a superdrol Cycle(possibily other cycles too) and to use a SERM or hgc.

They say the AI is not good for you, and will cause gyno and estrogen rebond after you come off. this thread is long but "big Cat" from bodybuilding.com explains why he thinks this is the case, and he went to school to research/study this kind of stuff. He said superdrol is already an ai on its own.

Ive completed a 5 week superdrol cycle i started novedex xt by gaspari nuritionin week four of my superdrol cycle, and have been doing novedex xt for three weeks now. i dont want to harm myself or my hormone levels and i want to get the proper info out there so people can have the best possible expirences. please any information that is helpful , please contribute

HERES THE THREAD http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=670729

 

[dadream]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

After reading the mentioned thread does anyone have any of their own experiences? Anyone here get the infamous SD delayed gyno? I myself have and I am currently taking the letro route. I've been taking it for 2 +weeks with some decrease in size on lumps. Any others trying anything with any success??

 

[jmh80]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Big Cat has no credibility in my mind.

Dude was on BB.com saying SD wasn't a steroid. And was hugly toxic and some other sh*t.

I didn't read his thread - I'm not gonna. I've got no respect for him after telling Dr. D to "drop dead and be sterile" or some childish sh*t.

It comes down to a debate about some high level science and I can't quite discern myself.
But, no one in the "don't take an AI camp" has yet to show anything on a steroidal AI - which is what ATD is.
So, until someone can show me research on a steroidal AI (not just a regular AI like arimidex) - I'll continue to use ATD/Reloaded with Toremifene/Tamox in my PCT's.

 

[rocketscientist]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

...For Doctor D and others

I think DR.D knows... :icon_lol:

 

[jmh80]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Please excuse my post.

That was poor. I don't want this board to turn into BB.com where flamers reign and everything is a piss and moan match.

BC - if you read this - sorry.


I've got bloodwork that showed a big increase in total testosterone and an increase in free testosterone by taking Rebound Reloaded and Activate.
If anyone doubts weather these guys raise test production, I can put it to rest.

Edit - the bloodwork is posted from Reloaded...

 

[not_big_enuf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Has he really doubted that AIs increase test? No way... that's ludicris (LOL at the spelling).

I think I could find hundreds of blood tests supporting this...

I'll continue to take my AI and use the good Dr. D's advice. I respect him until the end of time and he's proven time and time again he knows his ****.

Please excuse my post.

That was poor. I don't want this board to turn into BB.com where flamers reign and everything is a piss and moan match.

BC - if you read this - sorry.


I've got bloodwork that showed a big increase in total testosterone and an increase in free testosterone by taking Rebound Reloaded and Activate.
If anyone doubts weather these guys raise test production, I can put it to rest.

Edit - the bloodwork is posted from Reloaded...

 

[ripped218]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Has he really doubted that AIs increase test? No way... that's ludicris (LOL at the spelling).

I think I could find hundreds of blood tests supporting this...

I'll continue to take my AI and use the good Dr. D's advice. I respect him until the end of time and he's proven time and time again he knows his ****.

:goodpost:

 

[Beowulf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've used nolva and ATD in PCT and did not have any delayed gyno. I think Dr. D already argued Big Cat over this. They simply disagree. I just know that it didn't effect me.

 

[DR.D]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

The problem I think with BC is that he gets his facts mixed up sometimes. Also, he allows his personal hang-ups and short comings to cloud his advice. Bottom line, RXT is good for PCT. It's not only a steroidal AI, it's a special steroidal AI with the added LH boosting effect of an anti-androgen. I do not recommend other AI's during PCT (like the enzyme inhibitors letro and anastrazole) because rebound is possible. With steroidal AI's, rebound is not possible. Also, a SERM should be preferentially stacked, and the RXT dose reduced accordingly. I also suggest adjuncts like fenugreek, ACT and DHEA in my PCTs. BC doesn't like that either, but if you take my advise just as I give it, you are unlikely to have any problems and get a great PCT response. BC doesn't even lift weights himself, but I've been training since I was 14 years old. Although BC has expressed his desire to see me dead, God bless him anyway. Maybe one day he will grow up and start to acknowledge his issues.

 

[Beowulf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Smelton, if you want to see how megalomaniacal BC is, read the debate with Dr. Evil in the "BEST OF" section on bb.com, discussing Nolva vs. Clomid. Instead of an intelligent debate, BC belittles a guy who obviously has great
knowledge of the subject. He is obnoxious.

Dr. D has given dozens of guys here very specific PCT advice, but I've never seen anyone post about delayed gyno if they've followed D's protocol.

Dr. D and BC have argued about DHEA in PCT. BC swears it is suppressive. I used it and bounced back well. Tons of guys here will report the same. Plus, DHEA makes you feel great.

 

[ripped218]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

:clap2:

The problem I think with BC is that he gets his facts mixed up sometimes. Also, he allows his personal hang-ups and short comings to cloud his advice. Bottom line, RXT is good for PCT. It's not only a steroidal AI, it's a special steroidal AI with the added LH boosting effect of an anti-androgen. I do not recommend other AI's during PCT (like the enzyme inhibitors letro and anastrazole) because rebound is possible. With steroidal AI's, rebound is not possible. Also, a SERM should be preferentially stacked, and the RXT dose reduced accordingly. I also suggest adjuncts like fenugreek, ACT and DHEA in my PCTs. BC doesn't like that either, but if you take my advise just as I give it, you are unlikely to have any problems and get a great PCT response. BC doesn't even lift weights himself, but I've been training since I was 14 years old. Although BC has expressed his desire to see me dead, God bless him anyway. Maybe one day he will grow up and start to acknowledge his issues.

 

[Basso]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I read the whole post over at BB.com, it was ludicrously childish. Anyway I followed Dr. D's protocol and I was very pleased, I will use the same (with minor tweaks) for my next cycle, regardless of what you read on paper "Real World" results speak for themselves!
It's threads like that that really cause confusion when we should be keeping things simple as possible, I'm just waiting for that home hormone test to come out!

 

[sly]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've used Novedex Xt 3 times for pct after Superdrol cycles and have had no negative issues just positive results.

 

[joshua45stang]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

 

[DR.D]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

Perhaps you ended PCT a bit too early. I think that's the biggest issue in most cases of this. Plus, use a little DHEA next time!

 

[ripped218]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

What did your cycle look like? and what did your pct look like?

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

2 SD cycles and many atd pcts. no gyno! BC does seem to be losing his credibility, especiall since I learned he does not lift weights. paper and real world are different.

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

BC..eh. I won't put him down, he already does that himself through his actions. Wishing death on someone because they do not agree with you...yeah, that's credibility for you. Heck, even Bobo doesn't agree with the DHEA thing, but he hasn't declared jihad on Dr D and allows him to post here.

I'm still trying to be skeptical of the DHEA in pct..but damnit it works everytime even though on paper, it should not. I think that even though it "may" convert to estorgen, we're not looking closely enough at what kind of estrogen. People get a little too hung up on the terms test and estro, but in real endocrinology there is no such hormone as just plain "estorgen". Since in PCT your levels of several key hormones are low..DHEA is probably preferentially converting to them instead of the hormones that are already at optimal levels or above. That's my hypothesis and my balls keep giving me positive data. lol

I keep using ATD and it has worked well..but this stuff is still kind of a mystery to me. I keep the doses low and run alongside nolva or torm.

 

[Apowerz6]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Have used ATD, Fengureek, and DHEA, not coming off a SD cycle but off a PP cycle. It works wonders!!! After all if you look anywhere on the net about Fengureek, its supposed to help women lactate longer, while it had me shooting loads like Peter North. The DHEA helped me lose love handles and made me less of Oh and Lifetime watcher :lol:
All in all Real world experience and feedback is way better than what is supposed to work on paper!

 

[motiv8er]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I've had delayed gyno the past two times about 2-3 weeks after PCT of ATD

Hey Bud,
I have a couple of questions for you. I have had my own versions of estrogen rebound and want to know what SERM you used in those PCT's. Also what brand of ATD did you use? I think I removed so much estrogen from my system it was my bodies need to get back to homeostasis. Thanks-
M

 

[size]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I do not like the idea of using an AI for the entire course of post cycle but many other do. I believe a better choice is to use a combination. An AI during the last week of a cycle and into the first week of post cycle. Then move into a low dasge of a SERM.

For instance:
Last week ON: Start AI
1st week post: AI
2nd week post: low dose SERM
3rd week post: lower dose SERM
etc.

Of course there are other option/choices and additives.

Also, remember that post cycle construction is still an evolving process. Years ago it was clomid and nothing else. Before that it was nothing. Post cycle therapy is something continues to grow based on literature and experience.

 

[DR.D]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

BC..eh. I won't put him down, he already does that himself through his actions. Wishing death on someone because they do not agree with you...yeah, that's credibility for you. Heck, even Bobo doesn't agree with the DHEA thing, but he hasn't declared jihad on Dr D and allows him to post here.

I'm still trying to be skeptical of the DHEA in pct..but damnit it works everytime even though on paper, it should not. I think that even though it "may" convert to estorgen, we're not looking closely enough at what kind of estrogen. People get a little too hung up on the terms test and estro, but in real endocrinology there is no such hormone as just plain "estorgen". Since in PCT your levels of several key hormones are low..DHEA is probably preferentially converting to them instead of the hormones that are already at optimal levels or above. That's my hypothesis and my balls keep giving me positive data. lol

I keep using ATD and it has worked well..but this stuff is still kind of a mystery to me. I keep the doses low and run alongside nolva or torm.

This is the real issue: DHEA can convert to 5AD. 5AD doesn't convert to "estrogens" directly, and it doesn't really act as much of an estrogen itself. It does amplify the effects of other biological hormones in your system though. That's why guys use to stack it with test back in the old days, because when you take it on cycle, you get more miles out of lower doses of test, so to speak. Now, if you are using a SERM or steroidal AI with DHEA, the small amount that is converted into 5AD is OK, because if no estrogen is in your system, then there is no estrogenic expression to amplify. I've used 5AD before. It will make you grow tits in about 2 wks on a test cycle if you're not on an AI too. Even just 250mg/d of 5AD orally will promote gyno if you're not careful. But with 100-250mg DHEA, the conversion to 5AD is obviously low enough not to be a concern, or else you would all be pissed at me right now with tits and tiny little nuts wondering why the hell I gave you bad PCT info! I haven't. That's also why I say take my PCT advice exactly. Don't be adding or omitting stuff because it can make a difference sometimes! I've always been straight up with you guys. Sometimes it can be explained logically why something does or doesn't work, and other times it can't. But hey, if it works it works either way! Also, remember, DHEA is a 5-ene steroid. The 5-ene metabolic pathway can't convert to estrogen until if is isomerized to a 4-ene first. This is not a high yield conversion apparently. The amount of real estrogen (estradiol or estrone) that can be generated is less than 1/10 of 1%. Probably much less in fact, because I have honestly never experienced estrogenic sides from even high doses of DHEA period, and I am somewhat prone naturally.

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Groovy.

Thanks for the explanation O' Wise and Helpful Dr D. You've made a big impact on the direction of PCT and I thank you.

 

[Mass_69]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I think I removed so much estrogen from my system it was my bodies need to get back to homeostasis. Thanks-
M

This has been where I left off with the "delayed gyno" theories (at least for myself) - the lowering of estrogen too much during PCT. Since SD is said to be slightly anti-E, I dont believe that adding a potent AI (like ATD) will necessarily aid in recovery in this situation.

Also, I believe that the test-boost from ATD (running for your standard 4 weeks) could possibly cause test levels to rise (along with lowered E2) to the point of needing a "PCT-PCT," and not necessarily lead to homeostasis.

I would reserve ATD for aromatizable compounds, and not 5a-androstanes.

Just my 2 cents, and future plans.

 

[Mass_69]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

This is the real issue: DHEA can convert to 5AD. 5AD doesn't convert to "estrogens" directly, and it doesn't really act as much of an estrogen itself. It does amplify the effects of other biological hormones in your system though. That's why guys use to stack it with test back in the old days, because when you take it on cycle, you get more miles out of lower doses of test, so to speak. Now, if you are using a SERM or steroidal AI with DHEA, the small amount that is converted into 5AD is OK, because if no estrogen is in your system, then there is no estrogenic expression to amplify. I've used 5AD before. It will make you grow tits in about 2 wks on a test cycle if you're not on an AI too. Even just 250mg/d of 5AD orally will promote gyno if you're not careful. But with 100-250mg DHEA, the conversion to 5AD is obviously low enough not to be a concern, or else you would all be pissed at me right now with tits and tiny little nuts wondering why the hell I gave you bad PCT info! I haven't. That's also why I say take my PCT advice exactly. Don't be adding or omitting stuff because it can make a difference sometimes! I've always been straight up with you guys. Sometimes it can be explained logically why something does or doesn't work, and other times it can't. But hey, if it works it works either way! Also, remember, DHEA is a 5-ene steroid. The 5-ene metabolic pathway can't convert to estrogen until if is isomerized to a 4-ene first. This is not a high yield conversion apparently. The amount of real estrogen (estradiol or estrone) that can be generated is less than 1/10 of 1%. Probably much less in fact, because I have honestly never experienced estrogenic sides from even high doses of DHEA period, and I am somewhat prone naturally.

:goodpost:

I would admit, I was skeptical about DHEA during PCT, because of a possible rise in androgens, but of course we all know there is a difference between hormones on paper, and hormones in real world usage (you listening, BC?).

I personally have not tried it, so I'm not trying to vouch that it works, but has anyone actually complained to Dr.D?

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Well, since this thread emerged, I was just ending a 6 week PCT that started with Torm and tapered into low dose Nolva alongside ATD. I retained my gains fairly well and actually caused a mild case of gyno to go into remission..but my libido just sucked the whole way through. That was probably due to the 19 Nor and ATD.

For the last 3 days since ending nolva I decided to add in 100 mg of DHEA just to see what it would do at the end of a PCT. I have run it during PCT with good results. Day one and two..not much going on, but by today..BOING! The boys are bigger and I woke up with raging morning wood. Ahh, it's good to be back.

 

[Beowulf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Day one and two..not much going on, but by today..BOING! The boys are bigger and I woke up with raging morning wood. Ahh, it's good to be back.

:toofunny:

I'm on day 2 of PCT, but I'm feeling fine. I have a feeling that I'm not too shut down, but that statement could bite me in the ass:run:I just have a bit of shrinkage. Not too bad. We'll see.

BTW, DHEA @200mg/day is my starting dose. I'll drop it by 50mg each week.

 

[DR.D]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

... BTW, DHEA @200mg/day is my starting dose. I'll drop it by 50mg each week.

That's basically how I do it too usually.

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I went lower with the thinking that I am mostly recovered. Working fine. :thumbsup:

 

[jmh80]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I can't wait to try DHEA with bAET transdermally. The bAET for the mental boost that some dudes are raving about.

 

[jad5306]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

what is atd and hgc

 

[not_big_enuf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

:gotsearch

 

[UberPooper1]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

big cats a douche. if you are scared of gyno when only using an atd, just keep some nolva on hand. if gyno doesnt pop up, then at least you can say you were ready for it if it did.

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

That about sums up the entire thread in one sentence. Thanks Uber :thumbsup:

 

[Beowulf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Hey Bio and Dr. D:

Do either of you (or anyone else) know if it is aromatase that can convert DHEA to E? If so, ATD makes even more sense in PCT.

 

[DR.D]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Hey Bio and Dr. D:

Do either of you (or anyone else) know if it is aromatase that can convert DHEA to E? If so, ATD makes even more sense in PCT.

Like I've said, DHEA can't form estrogen directly. It can form androstenediol (the mixed 3,17 alpha/beta isomers of the 5-ene version, not 4AD though) by action of 3b-hydroxydehydrogenase. That contributes a great deal to test production apparently, and this metabolite can in turn form test by the action of the isomerase enzyme. Isomerase also converts DHEA into androstenedione. Andro is the common intermediate in the 4-ene pathway and it can be easily aromatized into estradione. 5AD however, mainly amplifies the effects of other circulating hormones. So yes, ATD makes great sense during a PCT using DHEA because if there is no estrogen in the system, the estrogenic effects of 5AD are quite negligible. Plus, any andro generated from DHEA as a precursor will not be subject to aromatization and be more available to support test production.

Bottom line: Taking the right amount of DHEA during PCT with the right ancillaries does not promote further suppression, but in fact supports recovery of endogenous gonadal steroid biosynthesis! I don't care what anybody says. It just works, and only a fool holds on to his stupid little studies when real life proof shows otherwise.

 

[Pitbull954]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

:bow28:


The sign should say my name is Dr. D now kneel suckers!!!

 

[Beowulf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Like I've said, DHEA can't form estrogen directly. It can form androstenediol (the mixed 3,17 alpha/beta isomers of the 5-ene version, not 4AD though) by action of 3b-hydroxydehydrogenase. That contributes a great deal to test production apparently, and this metabolite can in turn form test by the action of the isomerase enzyme. Isomerase also converts DHEA into androstenedione. Andro is the common intermediate in the 4-ene pathway and it can be easily aromatized into estradione. 5AD however, mainly amplifies the effects of other circulating hormones. So yes, ATD makes great sense during a PCT using DHEA because if there is no estrogen in the system, the estrogenic effects of 5AD are quite negligible. Plus, any andro generated from DHEA as a precursor will not be subject to aromatization and be more available to support test production.

Bottom line: Taking the right amount of DHEA during PCT with the right ancillaries does not promote further suppression, but in fact supports recovery of endogenous gonadal steroid biosynthesis! I don't care what anybody says. It just works, and only a fool holds on to his stupid little studies when real life proof shows otherwise.

Yeah, that is exactly what I was going to say Thanks, D. I was just thinking about DHEA and AI's and it seemed logical.

BTW, I'm on day 5 of PCT and I'm still gettin' down like a champ with the lil' lady

Shouldn't the DHEA be supressing this? Where's BC to explain this one :lol:

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

He's busy not working out.

 

[Mr. Methyl]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Chances are that I will not be doing a PCT after Superdrol. It simply does not say anything about PCT on the bottle. This isn't a real steroid, and it is altered in a way that in all likelyhood is designed to be used without PCT, for the recreational bodybuilder.

On the other hand I have some Methyl Masterdrol and some Methyl 1-A and it says to do a PCT, so of course I will do a PCT with those. (if I choose to do them) But, I will only be using what they recommend. IF I have problems the doctor will help me out with some clomid or HCG or whatever.

I believe that superdrol has an anti estrogen, and it is not a good product to be used with other prohormones/prosteroids. Possibly not for 6 months.

On top of that, there is a good chance I will use superdrol, and never use another prohormone again. I believe that this drug stays active in your system for a long time after you stop taking it, in some form or another.

If I get a gain of 15-20 lbs. and retain a solid 12-14 lbs. post cycle I will be damn happy, and provided my bloodwork is okay I will do nothing.

I am no expert and I am only going on second hand information and instinct here. PCT drugs are not something I want to play around with.

Plus, from what I have seen all you can get out of prohormones/prosteroids is 15-20 lbs. of muscle, and that is it. Its very foolish to continue to do one cycle after another of these drugs, because they are very toxic, and have unknown effects. Especially when more then one of these drugs is in the system at once.

I have yet to hear of anyone making gains of more then 15-20 lbs. in thier first cycle and then doing a second cycle were they gained any size at all.

Why not just do one cycle, gain 10-20 lbs. (and be thankful) and then move on to real steroids?

 

[not_big_enuf]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

:jaw:

Chances are that I will not be doing a PCT after Superdrol. It simply does not say anything about PCT on the bottle. This isn't a real steroid, and it is altered in a way that in all likelyhood is designed to be used without PCT, for the recreational bodybuilder.

On the other hand I have some Methyl Masterdrol and some Methyl 1-A and it says to do a PCT, so of course I will do a PCT with those. (if I choose to do them) But, I will only be using what they recommend. IF I have problems the doctor will help me out with some clomid or HCG or whatever.

I believe that superdrol has an anti estrogen, and it is not a good product to be used with other prohormones/prosteroids. Possibly not for 6 months.

On top of that, there is a good chance I will use superdrol, and never use another prohormone again. I believe that this drug stays active in your system for a long time after you stop taking it, in some form or another.

If I get a gain of 15-20 lbs. and retain a solid 12-14 lbs. post cycle I will be damn happy, and provided my bloodwork is okay I will do nothing.

I am no expert and I am only going on second hand information and instinct here. PCT drugs are not something I want to play around with.

Plus, from what I have seen all you can get out of prohormones/prosteroids is 15-20 lbs. of muscle, and that is it. Its very foolish to continue to do one cycle after another of these drugs, because they are very toxic, and have unknown effects. Especially when more then one of these drugs is in the system at once.

I have yet to hear of anyone making gains of more then 15-20 lbs. in thier first cycle and then doing a second cycle were they gained any size at all.

Why not just do one cycle, gain 10-20 lbs. (and be thankful) and then move on to real steroids?

 

[jmh80]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

:icon_lol:
Good joke Methyl.

Way to make fun of the retards on this forum.

 

[bioman]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Please tell me he is kidding.

 

[Mr. Methyl]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Superdrol has an anti estrogen in it that is supposed to kick in later. Adding PCT's to the compound may be what is causing so many people to get GYNO from it.

I am not talking about a few people, I'm seeing a lot of people who are getting gyno from it and they all did PCT.

The bloodwork will prove my theory. If I am wrong then of course I will just start using a PCT right away.

The other thing about this stuff that nearly everyone is saying is its more toxic, and has more side effects then real steroids, and is nowere near as effective.

See my point? Just go with the Superdrol, and do it for one cycle, and then never touch another prohormone/prosteroid again.

And I have yet to see were is says PCT is required by the company that makes Superdrol.

I could be wrong...but I want the bloodwork done anyway so I'm really not taking any risks.

Its just that there is evidence this stuff stays active in the system for months after using it. Mixing this with M1T or other methylated prohormones that we know nothing about just seems stupid. (as some people are taking in 4-6 different compounds over a 3 month period, not counting all the PCT's):blink:

 

[ripped218]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Superdrol has an anti estrogen in it that is supposed to kick in later. Adding PCT's to the compound may be what is causing so many people to get GYNO from it.

I am not talking about a few people, I'm seeing a lot of people who are getting gyno from it and they all did PCT.

The bloodwork will prove my theory. If I am wrong then of course I will just start using a PCT right away.

The other thing is that this stuff just isn't nearly everyone is saying this stuff is more toxic, and has more side effects then real steroids, and is nowere near as effective.

See my point? Just go with the Superdrol, and do it for one cycle, and then never touch another prohormone/prosteroid again.

And I have yet to see were is says PCT is required by the company that makes Superdrol.

I could be wrong...but I want the bloodwork done anyway so I'm really not taking any risks.

Its just that there is evidence this stuff stays active in the system for months after using it. Mixing this with M1T or other methylated prohormones that we know nothing about just seems stupid. (as some people are taking in 4-6 different compounds over a 3 month period, not counting all the PCT's):blink:

I hope you like having tits and no balls.:icon_lol:

 

[Mr. Methyl]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

From what I am seeing a lot of people are ending up with tits, regardless...

I'll see what the doctor says.

 

[jmh80]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

Man - you really are full of sh*t.

I see your reputation proceeds itself.


Note - I wouldn't advise ANYONE to listen to Mr. Methyl's advice.

 

[Mr. Methyl]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I wouldn't say this with any other prohormone/prosteroid but this one.

If you know of anywere that "Anabolic Extreme" says its okay to use PCT with Superdrol I will do it. But I haven't seen it so far, not on the bottle, nor on the description of the drug. (not in "Anabolic Extreme" literature)

This prohormone stuff is a joke anyway. I am thinking now this is a Pandoras box I don't want to open. I'll just wait for the real thing.

 

[ripped218]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I wouldn't say this with any other prohormone/prosteroid but this one.

If you know of anywere that "Anabolic Extreme" says its okay to use PCT with Superdrol I will do it. But I haven't seen it so far, not on the bottle, nor on the description of the drug. (not in "Anabolic Extreme" literature)

Sure, other people are making assumptions about this drug. I would rather take my chances and follow the directions and the instructions of a doctor.

Look under the anabolic xtreme section of this board,look at the thread ,superdrol for dummies.

 

[Mr. Methyl]

Re: Do Not use an AI after a superdrol cycle? For Doctor D and others

I'm not giving advice I am simply looking for personal answers.

DOES ANYONE SEE 'ANABOLIC EXTREME' RECOMMENDING PCT FOR SUPERDROL ANYWERE?

Tell me were it says that and I will do the PCT THEY recommend.