Test only PCT alternatives
- 02-13-2006, 07:39 PM
Test only PCT alternatives
(First of all, apologies to LCSULLA for initially placing this in the wrong forum.)
I have been reading on here and BB.Com for a while now and am at the stage where I'm considering my first injectables cycle.
Thought I'd start on the 500mg weekly test e as a lot of vets recommend.
My query is on the variety of advice on PCT.
Some say nolva only.
Some say nolva / clomid.
Some say you must add HCG to PCT.
To those that have done test only cycles, what have you found is best and more importantly, why?
I can access all the above products, thats not the problem - I'm more concerned with clomid sides and how vital you did or did not find HCG.
(Apologies if you consider this covered elsewhere. I've read stickies but you can't dispute that when you read peoples experiences there is a lot of variation.)
- 02-13-2006, 08:02 PM
Personally, Nolva only has worked great for me. HCG is not a PCT drug, it should be run while "on" to keep the testes active and allow a smooth transition into PCT. HCG is suppressive and you never, ever want that in PCT as the crux of the therapy is to return hormone production/levels to normal. I swear by the stuff. Just the fact that it stops the boys from looking like you fell in while ice fishing would be enough for me but it really does help when you enter PCT that you were not as shut down while on cycle. I hate clomid but many swear by it, I can't stand the sides. I do like to run an AI like Formestane, 6OXO or Rebound XT the last couple of weeks leading into PCT just to drop estro levels down to help jump start the recovery. I do not run AI's during PCT but there are definately 2 camps to this debate both with some great arguments. FWIWRecent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
- 02-13-2006, 08:32 PM
500mg of Testosterone Enanthate/Testosterone Cypionate every week for 12 weeks even with first few weeks of 35mg dbol every day is considered a very mild cycle. You do not NEED to to use hcg.
HCG is usually run and is best used for longer, larger dosed cycles.
For your cycle clomid and nolva will be enough to restore your natural test levels.
02-13-2006, 09:41 PM
He does not NEED to run test either and many find great benefit to HCG even with lower dosed, shorter cycles.
500 mg test ew shrinks my boys up dam quick.
02-13-2006, 11:54 PM
True. My emphasis on the word NEED was in response to his use of the word MUST in the following quote "Some say you must add HCG to PCT"Originally Posted by bpmartyr
I agree with what you say. If your cycle is not a mild one you will NEED to take HCG (on cycle only), to aid recovery in PCT. There is though a point where the cycle is mild enough that you do not hinder PCT recovery by foregoing the use of HCG on cycle. His cycle was of the latter vareity.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
I like clomid. It is less toxic to the liver than Nolva. I use both when needed but try to minimize Nolva.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
Neither do I but sometimes use Armidex 0.5 mg every day throughout the cycle only.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
02-13-2006, 11:57 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I believe we pretty much agree then. With the exception of clomid. It is very effective and less toxic to the liver, but the sides kill me. Blurred vision is not something an auto claims adjuster can deal with.Originally Posted by meowmeow
02-14-2006, 07:44 AM
This side effect is something everyone should be aware of...so I'm glad you brought it up. Some get the tracers and blurred vision (especially at night) while others don't. That's probably why people either love it or hate it.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
Nolva at high doses (doses higher than needed for PCT) can also create the same vision problems. Also if you have had LASIK eye surgery some users have reported permanent blurred vision from Nolva use (PCT doses).
Also note that the data suggests that similar ocular toxicity problems can arise from HCG & DNP.
These Clomid side-effects should be temporary and dissappear after Clomid is discontinued but I feel that that the longer one goes with these vision effects the more potential for long-term damage. However I haven't had these problems with Clomid.
The best Clomid side-effect is the porn-star quantity of semen it produces. <-My girlfriend
**By the way Viagra if taken with Clomid will make the vision problems much more pronounced.
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