postcycletherapy.com

[Zero Tolerance]

Okay. I'm going to try and take some initiative and put together an easy to remember URL as a reference page for PCT. Would anyone mind pointing out some important threads, discussions or information - wherever it may be?

I'd like to have a page set for facts and another page set for opinions.. I think this is really important so any help would be greatly appreciated...

The page is here: http://www.postcycletherapy.com

Thank you...

 

[JonesersRX7]

Wow... went out and registered a domain and linked it to a hosting account and everything.

Would have worked but if you compiled a bunch of links and had it laid out in an easy format and got it stickied....

But reps to you for going the extra 1000th mile. :rofl:

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I tried to gather up some of our members to get a sticky a couple of times - but nobody really has the time.. I don't have a whole lot of time either but I think this is very important and I'm going to do what I can. If the page can be robust enough, I'll refer to it myself from time to time.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Oh and what I'd like it to become is more than just links to information - but "actual" information with links to AM for the discussion.. So more or less a page or two of facts and/or theories - and then discussion about them...

Maybe some good examples of what to use after certain popular cycles as well...

 

[milwood]

nice effort, Zero!

 

[JonesersRX7]

Throughout the next week I will see what I can add.

General goals of PCT. ie - stimulation of HTPA

Stuff like that.

 

[pestis]

Great idea. fil that site and we will come.
hailz,
Pestis

 

[Beowulf]

Here's one: the good Dr. at his finest
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/37790-running-serm-inverse-adt.html?highlight=Serm+inverse+to+ATD

This contains his theory on why he believes this to be an effective PCT. PM him to see if you can copy and paste it.

 

[Schwaugher]

These are not all from AM, but you could probably add something like this...

"The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

Steroid Time after
last administration Length of
Clomid Cycle
Anadrol50/Anapolan50: 8 - 12 hours 3 weeks
Deca durabolan: 3 weeks 4 weeks
Dianabol: 4 - 8 hours 3 weeks
Equipoise: 17 - 21 days 3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone: 3 days 3 weeks
Primabolan depot: 10 - 14 days 2 weeks
Sustanon: 3 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Cypionate: 2 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron: 2 weeks 3 weeks
Testosterone Propionate: 3 days 3 weeks
Testosterone Suspension: 4 - 8 hours 2-3 weeks
Winstrol 8 - 12 hours 2-3 weeks"

Taken from http://intense-training.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13227

For info on blood work click the link posted by musclemar in this thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/12841-importance-bloodwork.html?highlight=bloodwork

Im glad to see someone doing this, it is a good idea. Good Luck.

 

[max-rot98]

nice effort zero

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thanks, guys.. I'm adding more and more, bit by bit.. I'll make it look nice after a good amount of information has been added..

 

[Marshall Law]

Good job ZT!

 

[BDAWG]

Awesome link Zero. Thanks for doing that.

 

[DR.D]

Sweet link! PM me if you need anything else.

 

[turkish]

It seems that the standard recommended PCT dosages for nolva (40-20mg) aren't necessary. A very knowledgeable member from CEM said that those dosages were derived from studies involving women, and this more recent one (which involves oligozoopermic males) indicates that even 5mg would be enough for men, which means no reason to go over 10mg. To me, it makes sense.

Effect of lower versus higher doses of tamoxifen on pituitary-gonadal function and sperm indices in oligozoospermic men.

Dony JM, Smals AG, Rolland R, Fauser BC, Thomas CM.

Administration of the antiestrogen tamoxifen for one month to 12 patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia significantly increased the mean basal testosterone (T) level and the responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) to constant luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) infusion but did not significantly influence the mean oestradiol (E2) levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio. Mean sperm concentration and total sperm output increased by about 70% after a mean treatment period of 5.5 +/- 0.4 months. No statistically significant difference was found between the two subgroups of patients treated with either the lower (5 or 10 mg once daily) or higher dose of tamoxifen (10 mg twice daily) with respect to basal or LHRH stimulated gonadotropin and testosterone response or the E2/T ratio and the effect on sperm density and total sperm output. In both subgroups the sperm motility and morphology remained unchanged. In conclusion higher doses of tamoxifen in this study prove not to be superior to lower doses in improving mean sperm density and total sperm output. The relative small percentage of patients achieving normalisation of only these sperm parameters pleads for further search for more effective selection of patients and other more effective treatment modalities in patients with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

Dr.D, what's your take on this?

 

[DR.D]

10mg is a good tail-off dose in long PCTs (eg.. 60,40,20,10,10,10), and although this study was done on idiopathic, oligozoospermic males rather than normal males, I still think the higher doses are required. While we all suffer from oligozoospermia post-cycle, it's not that clear-cut of a correlation. Gonadal autonomy, pituitary responsiveness or sex tissue sensitivity are all factors that can play a role in idiopathic cases. Estrogen governs FHS at it's heart and we need to raise LH as well. Therefore, it usually surprises me that SERM works as well as it does without a concurrent anti-androgen, but it real life it does. High initial doses are more effective postcycle in my experience, especially stacked with hCG. That's why I like ATD post cycle as well, it's mildly anti-androgenic so it covers both bases in recovery.

 

[PVSkyHigh]

DEfinatley very nice job ZT, I was going to say you could add the conversion for liquid nolva 1.5 ml. of a 20mg/ml solution equals 20 mg Nolva or Tamoxifen.

 

[turkish]

High initial doses are more effective postcycle in my experience, especially stacked with hCG.

Isn't hCG suppressive? I thought it should be used on-cycle only.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thank you very much! But I must apologise as well. I expected to have put more time into this project by now. Unfortunately, I have some twit trying to get me fired from my job. I'll be on this ASAP...

 

[PVSkyHigh]

Tell the twit to go beat off in his cubicle.:rant:

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Somehow, he became my boss...

Otherwise, just an FYI regarding Tamoxifen Citrate.. After a 7 week stint with Ergomax and Finigenx (replaced the Ergomax with SD for 2 weeks), I started using 40mg of Tamoxifen Citrate (20mg Tamoxifen/Nolvadex) for two weeks. During the second week, my nips became very sensitive. By the end of the second week, I was very concerned and started asking questions on here.. I was advised to up my dosage to 60mg of TC (40mg Nolva) and a week later, I'm feeling better..

 

[DR.D]

Isn't hCG suppressive? I thought it should be used on-cycle only.

It's often very useful if started about midway in the cycle and continued a week or two into PCT. It really depends on the level of suppression. Sometimes it is not even required, other times it's good from the very start of a cycle at low doses, and not needed at all in PCT.

 

[PVSkyHigh]

Glad to hear you arent sporting man boobies! :woohoo:

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Okay. I've added more information and worked alittle on the layout.

http://www.postcycletherapy.com/

If anyone would like to submit missing information, please do so here. I'm in need of specific dosages for certain things. For example, I have Rebound XT and ActivaTe listed - but I don't know how much one should take. Any help would be appreciated..

Thank you!

 

[DR.D]

Okay. I've added more information and worked alittle on the layout.

http://www.postcycletherapy.com/

If anyone would like to submit missing information, please do so here. I'm in need of specific dosages for certain things. For example, I have Rebound XT and ActivaTe listed - but I don't know how much one should take. Any help would be appreciated..

Thank you!

The RXT can be run inversely to a SERM. This is best when hCG is included. As the SERM dose goes down and hCG is phased out over a few wks, the RXT goes up. I've posted everywhere on this method. Also, RXT can be used solo for uncomplicated PCTs when stacked with DHEA and fenugreek for short, oral only cycles (1 month or less). Last, RXT can be used at the very end of a PCT just to taper off of SERMs. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes since for longer PCTs or when an edge on test production or reduced estrogen is desired long term.

ACT should be used starting the last wk or 2 wks of a cycle and continued for not longer than 8 total wks into PCT. 6wks seems perfect to me. The first and last wk of dosing should consist of a half dose, and the wks in between full doses. It's OK to take more than the full dose too because it's effects are non-toxic and dose dependent.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thank you, Dr. D! This information has been added...

 

[max-rot98]

Thank you, Dr. D! This information has been added...

ygpm

 

[Kris4153]

Nice dam job!!! Very impressed w/ info and layout!!:clap2:

 

[Viator]

Good Articles on PCT in Mind & Muscle

Zero,

While I kknow many members of this board are up in arms against Anthony Robert's recent PCT article in Mind & Muscle, I wrote a three-part series on non-traditional approaches to PCT. I think they're in issues 22-24, but can't check now cuz the site's down.

Part I deals w/ supplementation (not drugs) to combat the often-ignored aspects of PCT: depression, lack of motivation, and repairing the toxcicity you just exposed your body to.

Parts II & III deal w/ training and nutrition, which varies depending on if one's coming off a bulk or cutt.

If you contact ParDeus or Tkarrade, they may let you reprint the articles as they're pretty old. I think it'd make a great addition to the pct.com site. Feel free to PM me at AvantLabs. My lazy ass hasn't donated here yet so no PM's.
-V

 

[Cordeen]

The RXT can be run inversely to a SERM. This is best when hCG is included. As the SERM dose goes down and hCG is phased out over a few wks, the RXT goes up. I've posted everywhere on this method. Also, RXT can be used solo for uncomplicated PCTs when stacked with DHEA and fenugreek for short, oral only cycles (1 month or less). Last, RXT can be used at the very end of a PCT just to taper off of SERMs. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes since for longer PCTs or when an edge on test production or reduced estrogen is desired long term.

ACT should be used starting the last wk or 2 wks of a cycle and continued for not longer than 8 total wks into PCT. 6wks seems perfect to me. The first and last wk of dosing should consist of a half dose, and the wks in between full doses. It's OK to take more than the full dose too because it's effects are non-toxic and dose dependent.

Tell me I am reading this right. Is a 3-4 week cycle of pheraplex an uncomplicated cycle?...if so then Rebound XT alone could be used for PCT along with Retain maybe?...

..and may I ask the reasoning behind starting Activate during the last week or 2 of such a cycle?...to raise free test as well as estrogen levels?

Right now I am 2 weeks into a 4 week Pheraplex cycle and products I have for PCT are Rebound Xt, Retain, Activate, 6OXO, ZMA and 20 tabs of Nolva @20mgs. If this is all overkill then I'd cut back.

Thanks

 

[DR.D]

Tell me I am reading this right. Is a 3-4 week cycle of pheraplex an uncomplicated cycle?...if so then Rebound XT alone could be used for PCT along with Retain maybe?...

..and may I ask the reasoning behind starting Activate during the last week or 2 of such a cycle?...to raise free test as well as estrogen levels?

Right now I am 2 weeks into a 4 week Pheraplex cycle and products I have for PCT are Rebound Xt, Retain, Activate, 6OXO, ZMA and 20 tabs of Nolva @20mgs. If this is all overkill then I'd cut back.

Thanks

Yes, I'd call that an uncomplicated cycle. Even with strongly suppressive orals like methyltest, I always bounced hard with no SERM, after short cycles I mean. As the exception, I would not try this with M1T though! It's not a bad idea to include a SERM if you like, it depends more on how fast you feel you recover rather than level of shutdown after just a month. There is no reason to be struggling to recover 1 month post cycle if you had a SERM and the RXT didn't fix things for you. Lower doses of both are not a bad idea either if it makes you more comfortable to include both.

Starting the ACT just before the end of the cycle is really of greater value when injectables have been used for several months prior. It may not be very useful to your purposes and you could start the first wk of PCT. Estrogen is not elevated as a rule with ACT, and I have seen several bloodwork results showing a lowered estrogen. Because free test is elevated, the lack of estrogenicity is the cool part about ACT!

Your PCT products look fine. Overkill is usually better than underkill in my experience. Like I said earlier, you could stack the Nolva and RXT (thus reducing the dose on both). However, you should not stack the RXT and 6-oxo. They act by similar mechanism and the 6-oxo could greatly dilute or inhibit the effects of the much stronger RXT.

 

[Irish480]

Gave you a + rep for making this site. I will try and spread the word for all of the uniformed AAS users to go there. This will be great for elminating stupid threads by newbies asking about PCT(although I was once one of them).

Nice Job

 

[Cordeen]

Yes, I'd call that an uncomplicated cycle. Even with strongly suppressive orals like methyltest, I always bounced hard with no SERM, after short cycles I mean. As the exception, I would not try this with M1T though! It's not a bad idea to include a SERM if you like, it depends more on how fast you feel you recover rather than level of shutdown after just a month. There is no reason to be struggling to recover 1 month post cycle if you had a SERM and the RXT didn't fix things for you. Lower doses of both are not a bad idea either if it makes you more comfortable to include both.

Starting the ACT just before the end of the cycle is really of greater value when injectables have been used for several months prior. It may not be very useful to your purposes and you could start the first wk of PCT. Estrogen is not elevated as a rule with ACT, and I have seen several bloodwork results showing a lowered estrogen. Because free test is elevated, the lack of estrogenicity is the cool part about ACT!

Your PCT products look fine. Overkill is usually better than underkill in my experience. Like I said earlier, you could stack the Nolva and RXT (thus reducing the dose on both). However, you should not stack the RXT and 6-oxo. They act by similar mechanism and the 6-oxo could greatly dilute or inhibit the effects of the much stronger RXT.

Thank you so much for the prompt response.

 

[DR.D]

Thank you so much for the prompt response.

I'm always happy to try and help Cordeen!

ZT has taken a big step in making this link now too, since there really isn't a PCT sticky around here.

 

[Syr]

Okay. I'm going to try and take some initiative and put together an easy to remember URL as a reference page for PCT. Would anyone mind pointing out some important threads, discussions or information - wherever it may be?

I'd like to have a page set for facts and another page set for opinions.. I think this is really important so any help would be greatly appreciated...

The page is here: http://www.postcycletherapy.com

Thank you...

PCT is one of the things that entertain me almost as much as planning a cycle. The idea of loosing the hard gained muscles is dreaded for an ecto like me.

Therefore, I'm willing to offer you my help on filling information on your site.
PM or email me.

 

[Syr]

Re: Good Articles on PCT in Mind & Muscle

Zero,

While I kknow many members of this board are up in arms against Anthony Robert's recent PCT article in Mind & Muscle

I dont remember the article, but his own PCT in the Anabolic section of Avant board is good and very well documented.

I have nothing personal against AR, but he doesnt seem willing to participate to any discussion, and I dont like that attitude.
Thats not the One and Only PCT protocol that one could follow. Its just a good one like others.

 

[yeahright]

ACT should be used starting the last wk or 2 wks of a cycle and continued for not longer than 8 total wks into PCT. 6wks seems perfect to me. The first and last wk of dosing should consist of a half dose, and the wks in between full doses. It's OK to take more than the full dose too because it's effects are non-toxic and dose dependent.

Wouldn't Activate fool the body into thinking that it didn't need to restart HPTA by freeing up test?:blink:

 

[DR.D]

Wouldn't Activate fool the body into thinking that it didn't need to restart HPTA by freeing up test?:blink:

You would think so, right? Not only that, but also increase estrogen levels. It's really a sweet loophole. The binder/lignand complex may have a significant oppositional effect in the hypothalamus and/or pituitary, like it does in the prostate, but I must admit that as of now, I can not fully characterize why it works so well.

 

[200wannabe]

One thing thats puzzled me with activate in PCT is: If you have low test in PCT then what use is there in trying increase the free fraction? I can see it being useful when not in pct but is it of much value when test levels are low?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Very nice job on the link my man, it is good to see someone took the initiative to collect valuable information and store it in an easily accessed place..This should definitely be a sticky

 

[DR.D]

One thing thats puzzled me with activate in PCT is: If you have low test in PCT then what use is there in trying increase the free fraction? I can see it being useful when not in pct but is it of much value when test levels are low?

Maybe that's when a marginal increase would seem most apparent. I still think other factors are involved that I just have not fully quantitated for you guys yet.

 

[JonesersRX7]

Hey D I sent you an email, did you by chance get it?

 

[DR.D]

Hey D I sent you an email, did you by chance get it?

No, my DS mail is down right now. Get me at [email protected]

 

[stxnas]

Bump for an update!!! It's a great site, but could use a little updating...if you can't do ZT, I'm sure others that have the know how will help out.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Well. The site gets a decent amount of traffic considering it's #1 in Google for "post cycle therapy" - of course... I figured it would make a great reference site for anyone looking for help. However, I'm not the most knowledgeable in regards and don't have the time to research at the moment.. If anyone would be willing to help out, I'd appreciate it..

The more traffic the site gets, the better it is for this forum as it directly links here...

 

[stxnas]

You should get with thesinner or at least link this from your site: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

 

[PCSD]

Wow, props for doing this.

 

[stxnas]

Yeah, I agree...it's a prett sweet website!

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thank you. I added that link and another I felt was important.. Any information you'd like to contribute to this site would be greatly appreciated...