SD + AI = GYNO?

[darkswan]

I have taken 2 superdrol cycles in the last year. My last run concluded at the start of Sept. My cycle was:

Week 1: 10 mg SD
Week 2-3: 20mg SD
Week 4: 10 mg SD
Week 5: Nolva 60,60,60,40,40,20,20 mg
Week 6 - 8 : RXT

In mid December I noticed that I was getting some pointy tips on my chest that I've never seen before. Initially I wrote it off as weight gain and began to restrict calories. Since then I have developed a lump forming under my right nipple and the tits are becoming pronounced as I lost weight.

After reading about delayed Gyno at BB forums I immediatly began taking Nolva to combat "rebound Gyno".

The problem has not subsided and since I was taking primarily Designer Supp product I was wondering if anyone else has any input on this becoming a widespread issue.

I did find a very good thread at BB discussing it, but want some feedback from those here at AM.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=669724

Thanks for any constructive feedback.

 

[Apowerz6]

See Dr. D thread on Superdrol...

Yeah, I've heard it. I'm phat daddy over there (and just finished battling with a very angry BC). Still, I disagree. Steroidal AI's are OK during PCT. Too many people have had success with them now to say otherwise if you really want to be honest with yourself, but I do say avoid Letro and Adex use for sure. I was skeptical too when everyone was using 6-Oxo for PCT, but I suspected steroidal AI's were OK based on my experience years before that. Yes, I've used 4OH, ATD and Teslac (not Exemestane though) and they do work if used properly! Sorry, they have their flaws on paper but results speak louder in my book. BTW, DHEA has benefits during PCT too! Of course, if you listen to people at BB.com, that's dangerous talk and can hurt people, but I know better and so do many of you who have tried it now. Some people only know the books but have no experience to confirm. I am not sure what Nolvadex XT is, gotta link?

That was posted by Dr. D on 1-16-06, maybe he will chime in a lil more...

 

[jonny21]

Week 5: Nolva 60,60,60,40,40,20,20 mg
Week 6 - 8 : RXT

No one is quite certain of the reason nor are they even certain that these are confirmed cases of gyno.

The one thing I can be certain of is that you definitely did not put in the proper research for your PCT. Nolva, if used, should be run through PCT. Here is a typical dosing scheme for Tamoxifen Citrate:
week 1: 60mg= 40mg tamoxifen
week 2: 60mg
week 3: 30mg= 20mg tamoxifen
week 4: 30mg

Not saying this is the cause for your "gyno" but this is how it should be done. JMO

 

[darkswan]

The puffy nipple with a small amount of clear fluid that can be excreted tells me I'm lactating which leads me to believe this is definelty some form of Gyno.

The problem with PCT recipes is that everyone is different based on opinion. 6 months ago when AI' s like ReboundXT were becoming more prevelant for PCT many were recommending to use them exclusively without the need for Nolva unless you were developing symptoms of gyno.the point being what is "right" seems to change a lot in this industry.

this case is different in that the gyno has developed 4 months after the SD cycle ended.

I am using Tamoxifino tablets 20mg.

Thanks Again

 

[SJA]

Jonny is correct. You did not run the nolva long enough. If you are lactating, then it may not be due to estrogen but rather prolactin. You may be better served running Bromocriptine or dostinex.

You are correct that PCT recipes will vary in effectiveness from person to person. Obviously, you are prone to gyno. How long have you been running Nolva to combat rebound gyno and what doses are you currently taking?

Also, maybe your brand of Nolva is past expiration or just not Tamoxifen (we've seen this before). You may look into a different source for your script. Just some food for thought.

 

[darkswan]

SJA those are very good thoughts. Appreciated.

I am only experienceing a minor amount of lactation when I firmly squeeze the nipple the tip becomes covered with fluid but no drip or anything. I will read more about Dostinex. can it be run simultaniously with Tamoxifen?

A few days before new years I started taking mexican Tamoxifeno brand -
Week1 : 60 mg
Week2 : 40 mg
since last week 20mg daily.

I am unclear at this point as to how long I can run this dosage but am in the midst of researching and gathering info on proper methods to treat gyno by reviewing articles and pub med data.

The lump has gone from pea size to dime size in that time and is only in the right nip. It also appears visually more full.

My best option as I see now could be to just continue taking Tamoxifino for an extended period. =(

My only other thought is that my online mexican medicine supplier is selling bunk product, but i've only heard positives about them so far.

I'll report back progress.

 

[max-rot98]

You definately would want to talk to Dr.D. Possibly raloxifene would be of help but I am not sure. I haven't ever had gyno problems.

 

[motiv8er]

How long has it been since you ramped up the dosage? Maybe a higher dose of nolva will help also. Have you gained much weight/ fat?Sometimes when I am bigger the munp can seem encouraged by the fat accruial.

 

[SJA]

I would have ran the Nolva longer at the higher dose prior to ramping down. It obviously is working since the lump is shrinking. I would PM DrD with a link to this thread and get his opinion on what to do next. I would venture to guess that he would suggest continuation of a SERM....but I wouldn't do it until he concurs.

 

[darkswan]

If you are lactating, then it may not be due to estrogen but rather prolactin. You may be better served running Bromocriptine or dostinex.

I think you have the right idea SJA. I have been on nolva for almost a month and the problem has only increased. Large bump - more lactation.

At this point I can't say it was a result of AI - I suspect this is all SD related, however, if it's not estrogen related gyno then an AI would not help in defending against this type of gyno.

Superdrol gyno may not be estrogen related at all. I hope that it is progesterone related and that a run of the Dostinex will alleviate the symptoms.

I should have my supply this weekend, I'll post back how it turns out.