PCT: you might want to save your AI
- 01-09-2006, 10:18 PM
PCT: you might want to save your AI
Alright everyone, PCT protocols are beginning to confuse the hell out of everyone. I am about 10 days into my cycle with about 20 more to go. I love every minute of it. Of course I don't want to crash and burn either.
Check out this link. Look's like it is a serious consideration to use mainly SERMS and save the AIs for solo use once we are rehab'ed back to normal T levels.
This thread took a lot of time to put together and holds some quality info imo. let's discuss this and finally start making some legit conclusions for pct especially with superdrol use!!!!!
- 01-10-2006, 02:28 AM
its been known that strong AIs should be used on cycle rather then in PCT where SERMS should be used.
- 01-10-2006, 05:41 AM
Checked out the link. No valid or viable facts or evidence reported. Would need a ****load more results. A SERM only group would be needed for a control.
Can't even be sure it is gyno in these cases. Could just be a case of overeating due to the delusional belief that they actually gained 15-20lbs of LBM in 3-4 weeks and subsequent fatty tissue in breast.Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-10-2006, 07:20 AM
This is exactly what I was going to say. I just ran a 4 weeker of Emax (20mgED) and ATD (50mgED) and the results were very favorable. I am only using a lite clomid protocol for PCT and Im not even sure I need that. I had no visible signs of suppression or shrinkage. Im sure my HPTA was mildly suppressed, but this is the easiest PCT I have ever done. I will always run ATD for 3-4 week cycles from now on. For the longer 10-12 weekers, I think letro or arimidex would be more appropriate and incorporating HCG throughout at 500iu/week will always help. Also adding Finasteride during the last 4 weeks (2 weeks before your last injection) can also help PCT be easier.Originally Posted by Pioneer
01-10-2006, 10:38 AM
Fair enough. Can you comment on delayed gyno though? I was going more for this issue rather than ease of PCT in general as you stated.
And of course the data is limiting, but I thought the graph was a fairly novel idea which can be appreciated. I wish someone would do serm only (especially someone who is predisposed to gyno).
Question for AI while on cycle - any other side effects noticed? Extreme joint pain? acne, etc? anything? Any specific protocol for dosing the AI while ON? I am thinking of doing serm-only with something like a tribulus product rather than an AI for my upcoming pct.
Afterall these AI products are fairly new, and people got by without them in the past!
01-10-2006, 11:33 AM
This is not new. Many individuals, myself included, are not fans of using an AI during post cycle. In my mind, the way to use an AI would be the last 10-15days of a cycle and the first week of post cycle and allow post cycle to revolve around nolva and hcg.
01-10-2006, 11:47 AM
Steroidal AI's like ATD or Exemestane do not act like traditional AI's. This onset of gyno has me puzzled, I would question the validity of the claims, and wonder if it is not just estrogen related fatty deposits like Jonny 21 stated.
01-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Hmm these are all great points. So would something like 6-oxo actually be ideal (in conjunction with Nolva for exampe)?
Also, can anyone comment on sides they experienced while using an AI & AAS? List them whether they be good or bad.
01-10-2006, 02:45 PM
I agree that using exemestane with tamoxifen is the better option. And of course tapering both down properly is key.
I would say the delayed onset gyno from ATD is because people are ramping UP the AI (atd) thereby falling off and resulting in rebound, of course.
01-10-2006, 03:03 PM
As far as I know there is no rebound with ATD, or any steroidal AI for that matter.
01-10-2006, 03:26 PM
I am over my head with the specific enzymatic reactions but here is what Dr. D stated:Originally Posted by ryansm
Running Serm inverse to ADT??
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-11-2006, 09:47 PM
Hi, My name's N4cer.....and I'm an "anabolic" Hey, N4cer check out MTV's True Life tommorow at 10PM
Originally Posted by N4cer
01-11-2006, 10:03 PM
You might want to e-mail me. I believe you have me confused with someone else.Originally Posted by kyky
e-mail me at
01-12-2006, 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by kyky
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