My post cycle plan
- 12-04-2005, 11:40 PM
My post cycle plan
I am coming off a long cycle in a few weeks, was something like 27 weeks long, a wee bit longer than planned lol. I have been planning this post cycle for quite sometime, trying to gather as much info from others who have successfully recovered from these long cycles. So far, this is the best pct I can think of to make recovery as easy as possible. It is probably overkill, but I would rather be spending a few bucks I didnt need to, than wishing I did and having a crappy recovery. While on cycle I have been running HCG throughout most of it, usually 500IU 3x week. These last few weeks leading up to pct I will be using 500IU eod, may do the last ~5 days of the cycle at 500IU everyday, gotta make sure the boys are swole!!
There are a few things I am unsure of on. I have the DHEA in there, not for sure on whether to use it or not, have read of several people having problems with getting gyno from it, but I figure with my combo of SERMS/AI I shouldnt have any problems in that department. The next thing is when to start the IGF. I have it set up to start the IGF as soon as I end the HCG, I know many say not to run HCG in pct, but I have found a couple studies that proved when taken at 250IU 2x week in conjuction with nolva, there was no inhibition of natural test levels or FSH/LH. Also, Author L. Rea, although many disagree with some of his theories, has HCG through part of his recovery periods. So since I am running the HCG ~3 weeks into pct, I figured there would be no crash in that time period, so I had it set up to start the IGF right after ceasing the HCG to help prevent any crash that may occur from stopping the HCG. I cant decide if it is better to use the HCG the way I have it set up, or as soon as I start pct. Another reason I waited to start the HCG in week 3, is it seems the "crash" occurs somewhere around week 3-4, so I thought that would help prevent that.
Another thing I am having a hard time deciding on is whether to use proviron in pct. I was planning on using it the first 3 weeks of pct at around 30mg/day, pretty low dose for proviron. There is no conversion to estrogen and it actually has some anti-e properties, so it shouldnt cause any shutdown from excessive estro production, and its not such a strong androgen that it will cause shutdown from that. I have talked to several people that ran proviron through part of their pct and they said it was a very easy recovery. I am sure it will inhibit recovery to a degree since there are still some exogenous hormones there, but the way I see it, is I will get a little bit of recovery while on the proviron, while being able to avoid the crash, then when stopping the proviron, continue recovery and hopefully enough recovery had taken place in those 3 weeks that the crash shouldnt be near as bad. Mainly using it to help with libido. Again, ALR has proviron through part of his recovery cycles. Alot of different ideas/opinions on this one...
For the other supps I will be taking completely throughout pct, it will be ZMA/ Trib Xtreme by CNW/ Creatine/ Cissus/ Lean Xtreme/ GXR. Possibly thinking about trying Powerfull from USP Labs when I am done with the IGF. I have never tried Glucophase XR, but I was thinking using it pct should help keep the muscles full of nutrients to slow catabolism somewhat, and for postworkout I want to try 2 caps GXR with Vitargo since that carb is supposed to have such good absorption and speed glycogen replenishment. Using that in conjuction with IGF should give some pretty good pumps I hope. This is gonna be freaking expensive lol.
Just looking for some opinions on what I could do to make this better or any changes you guys think I should make to improve this.
- 12-04-2005, 11:54 PM
This is for those of you who cant download the attachment I had:
Week 1: Clomid 150mg/ Nolva 60mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ HCG 250IU 2x week/ DHEA 400mg/ Proviron 30mg/ Fenugreek 3g
Week 2: Clomid 100mg/ Nolva 60mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ HCG 250IU 2x week/ DHEA 200mg/ Proviron 30mg/ Fenugreek 4g
Week 3: Clomid 100mg/ Nolva 40mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ HCG 250IU 2x week/ DHEA 200mg/ Proviron 30mg/ Fenugreek 5g/ Longjack 1.5g/ IGF 30mcg/
Week 4: Nolva 40mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ DHEA 200mg/ Fenugreek 6g/ Longjack 1.5g/ IGF 30mcg
Week 5: Nolva 20mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ Longjack 1.5g/ IGF 30mg
Week 6: Nolva 20mg/ Adex .5mg/ Activate/ Longjack 1.5g/ IGF 30mcg
Week 7: Adex .5mg/ Activate/ Longjack 1.5g/ Fenugreek 4g
Week 8: Adex .25mg/ Activate/ Longjack 1.5g/ Fenugreek 5g
Week 9: Adex .25mg/ Longjack 1.5g/ Fenugreek 6g
Thats about it. The last 3 weeks while I am on cycle I am going to run Ultra HOt by ALRI to see if the ATD's proposed blocking androgens at the hypothalamus will help speed recovery as I come off, if that makes any sense lol. Open to all and any opinions!!
- 12-05-2005, 01:17 AM
Pct looks pretty bad ass. I would maybe add some ATD, and powerfull.
pretty short cycle...
I start next week, can't wait.
12-05-2005, 01:21 AM
I was thinking of adding powerfull once I end the IGF so I could be adding another new compound to the mix, just seems at the beginning I am taking so much i dont know if it would be a waste of money. I was just planning of running the ATD at the very end of my cycle, may overlap the first couple weeks of pct. I also figured since I have adex in there as an AI there would be no need for another AI, and it seems to me that ATD is killing people's libido, not really that important I guess when considering recovery, but I like to have it
Looked over your cycle and it looks pretty kick ass, have fun with it!
12-05-2005, 01:23 AM
12-05-2005, 10:13 PM
12-08-2005, 12:32 PM
can atd help prevenent any testicular atrophy on cycle? Im going to use hcg starting in my 5th week. I just dont want my girl to notice to many red flags.
My last cycle i didn't have any problems, except with m1t at the end. Im starting with m1t this time and lmg and prop..damn
Do you think atrophy will happen instantly?
Maybe i should kick off with superdrol? Cause it didn't cause problems before?
Im not sure how i will react with the prop this time.
I also got halodrol, i should probably just stick to the original plan, and not be paranoid.
Hows your pct, or pre pct going?
12-08-2005, 12:48 PM
I still go with Nandi's theories on using an AI during PCT. Don't do it.
If I get some time I can point you toward some of his posts about this, basically what he found from talking with users and his own research is that it hinders recovery due to crippling your estrogen levels.
So again going on a discussion I had with him, I hit the AI fairly hard for the last week of my cycle, something like 2x what I used all throughout the cycle. That gets your E low, and from there it shouldn't be a problem.
I would also consider ditching the proviron. Everything I have read basically says its not going to do much and it is 'believed' not to cause any shutdown. Just seems like a waste of money imo.
Other than that I think it looks great. Although I would up that LR3 dose, but thats just me
I am coming off about a 25 weeker right now and have an extremely aggressive PCT lined up much like yours. Combo of clomid, nolva, ketotifen, low dose albuterol, 3mg LR3, Hexatropin for several months, K-rala, low dose HCG a couple weeks into PCT, LX, CET. Then later activate, powerful...blah blah blah.
Again probably overkill but as you said, screw it!
12-10-2005, 04:10 PM
Thanks for the tips neuromancer. I understand what you are saying about the AI in pct and driving estrogen levels too low, as some estrogen is necessary and eliminating it all is not good. There is a pct protocol out there by Pheedno, dont know if you have seen it, but it is designed for coming off long cycles and he has it set up with the SERMS up front for 4-6 weeks with an AI ran for 8 weeks. The guys who have ran it coming off long cycles said it was the best recovery they have ever had, so I dont know what plan is best. I may just go ahead and say screw the proviron in pct, the thing that does worry me is if it does in fact keep me shut down for those first few weeks, all the pct meds I was taking would be a complete waste.
Neuro, have you ever ran a cycle this long before, and if so how was your recovery afterwards? What is your training plan going to be? I am going with a 3 day split, currently doing DC training, but I have a feeling that would be too much for pct. Have you ever ran clomid before? This will be my first time with it, the only things worrying me about it are the extreme mood swings and vision problems. I would like to up my dose for the IGF, just dont think I have the financial resources to do so now.
12-11-2005, 02:04 PM
this is an intense PCT. i have a few thoughts ill throw out there.
ive never done a long cycle like this and ive never used HCG but from the gurus around here like glen and ubq and their comments on it they always say never run it into PCT. just what ive noticed.
the use of nolva and clomid i believe might offset the use of HCG but i think it would be more useful if you just took away the HCG at the begining of PCT.
the addition of PowerFULL would probably be a good idea becasue of it strength increases and it doesn't suppress. probably an overall good choice to help keep and maybe even add to gains.
and your worries of gyno on DHEA shouldn't be that much since youre on two SERMs, id be more worried of gyno from the HCG while on cycle.
thats all i got
Last edited by Pioneer; 12-11-2005 at 02:57 PM.
12-12-2005, 06:38 PM
I have seen pheedno's protocol and sounded good, but usually I default to Nandi's theories and things we had discussed just because he was incredibly knowledgable and had very sound theories.Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
I have run a cycle long before, not quite this long, but it was about 20 weeks. This one was about the same as yours 25 or 26. I had a great recovery, and didn't use half of what I am using now. No LR3, no Keto, and within three months (I usually wait about 3 months after to get bloodwork, just to give my body plenty of time to get back to normal) I had good looking numbers all across the board.
I always use clomid I really feel that since I started using a combo of Nolva and clomid I recover much better. The mood swings everyone talks about, I don't get. Nor do I feel like a crying or a female or any of that. It does, however, mess with my vision a little. Nothing terrible, just every once in a while I see a trail or two and that is only when I am at 100mgs ED. Once I drop below that it stops.
Even with a low dose of LR3 I think it will help tremendously. Some guys think that is all you need, I personally like to push the dosages a tad and found that it worked much better at the higher dosages and with no sides...for me at least.
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