Cortisol Negative Feedback Loop...DR D?
11-23-2005 05:52 PM
Cortisol Negative Feedback Loop...DR D?
Guys, I posted this in the DS forum but didn't get much attention so Im trying here.
Ive been reading up in "building the perfect beast" and one of the main points of the book is action/reaction. How the body fights for homeostasis. He talks all about cortisol reduction post cycle which I never even considered untill LX came out and I think it is one of the best things since sliced bread for PCT.
One of the things he talks about though is how constant cortisol reduction of 3 weeks or more leads to a negative feedback loop in which the body ramps up ACTH from the Pituitary gland which causes increased cortisol production/release from the adrenal glands. The body is also ramping up normal cortisol production to get back to homeostasis and so once the cortisol drug is stopped cortisol levels reach very high levels again.
His solution to this was a 2day on/2 day off protocol which kept cortisol levels low, however didnt put the pituitary/adrenal glands into hyperactivity and didn't cause the body to start raising cortisol levels trying to establish homeostasis.
How do you guys from DS or anyone else feel about this. In theory it makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? Maybe Dr. D can chime in as well on this subject. I was thinking of doing the 2 day on/2 day off with LX. This would also allow you to use a slightly higher dosage on the on days and still use one whole bottle for PCT.
11-23-2005 05:54 PM
This was also one of the reply's from the other post.
I think eventually the body would come back into homeostasis, but the elevated cortisol and estrogen levels at the end and directly after a cycle, mixed with the now very low androgen levels, mean Post cycle loss for us. Obviously this is the point of PCT.
Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2
I personally think Rebound/Activate/LX (Or similar) is a great PCT combination. The whole goal is to bring those high levels of estrogen and cortisol down quickly, along with boosting androgrens. (Activate - free test levels)
Another tactic L. Rea uses is initiating the anti-estrogen and anti-cortisol in the last 15 days of the cycle. This is when the body is starting to raise estrogen and cortisol, again to try and establish homeostasis against the high androgen levels. So by incorporating in the last 15 days, it keeps androgen levels higher longer, and also once the PH/PS is eliminated, there is no waiting for the estrogen/cortisol to lower, its already being kept at bay. Any thoughts on this guys?
It all seems to make complete sense to me and I really am looking differently at cycles now after reading this book. His whole approach is layering AAS cycles/pct/non AAS anabolic stages, so you are constantly responding to the bodies own action/reaction cycle and negative feeback loops.
11-23-2005 10:48 PM
I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this as well.
11-24-2005 06:39 PM
Well, Author is mostly correct. You need to ramp at the end to attenuate cortisol while ATCH reduces. LX doesn't aggravate this, it just helps block the effects of cortisol while ATCH is lowering. LX or any anti-cort protocol could be initiated as soon as orals are phased out (roughly 14 days out from PCT). This is one of the reasons I still suggest pyramiding orals, even if this approach has been "dead and buried" (according to Big Cat at least) for 10 years now. Something like this on an imaginary cycle:
week1: 20mg Dbol
week2: 30mg Dbol
week3: 40mg Dbol
week4: 50mg Dbol
week5: 30mg Dbol, 50mg LX
(week6: 20mg Dbol, 100mg LX)
week7: 150mg LX
week8: 100mg LX
week9: 50mg LX
By the end of week 8 or 9, cortisol/ATCH is likely back to normal. You can skip wk6 and go straight to 7 with short (less than 6 weeks) cycles because the ramp down can be abbreviated. Also, certain drugs like aminoglutethimide that interfere with the formation of cortisol intermediates can inspire rebound. Things like LX antagonize the effects of cortisol more than they inhibit biosynthesis, so ATCH upregulation is not encountered.
11-26-2005 06:15 PM
Someone just NEEDS to come up with a non-toxic analogue...
Originally Posted by DR.D
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