Best PCT I've ever had!!!
11-28-2005 06:52 PM
Someone please explain something to a dummy like me..........
After 5 weeks of a cycle, one would assume any athelete is in a state of endogenous shut down. Designersupps "Activate" is supposed to reduce SHBG. I've read posts elsewhere by Nandi (God rest his soul) that one of the reasons Nolva and Clomid "work" is that, among other things, SHBG is increased. And while I don't wish to speak for anyone else, Big Cat also is posting a specific debate thread on CEM calling into question whether reducing SHBG is a good thing or not.
But let's say for the time being that reducing SHBG is a good thing. If one is in a state of suppression, producing little to zero endogenous testosterone, why should reducing SHBG have any impact on muscle4life's PCT?
Just from a common sense point of view, let's say that by taking this "Activate" supplement, he reduces his SHBG and somenow doubles his unbound endogenous testosterone production........... ok. 2 x 0 = 0.
So is it really that "Activate" is really a great PCT supplement to take, or is it more likely he's experiencing some leftover tail end effects from the cycle he's just completed?
BTW, I'm not knocking the supplement. I just don't understand why the supplement's label claims should be producing any tangible benefits used in this particular way. And in fact, since they produce a different product, "Rebound" for this specific use, I'm questioning why "Activate" should even be considered for PCT.
11-28-2005 09:11 PM
First of all, BC is straight trippin' these days. His advice has become very false, biased and hypothetical. If you listen to him, you'd also have to believe that Superdrol is worthless and ramping doses on a cycle is stupid too. I think there are so many positive SD threads on AM and BB alone that you really can't even take him seriously anymore. His own infomation testifies against him! Also, try starting a cycle with 150mg Anadrol/day and 1g of test a week without a ramp. Yeah right! Call me in 2 weeks when your headache finally goes away and you can actually go to the gym again. I don't know why people still listen to him. Same thing with ACT. If it should not be considered it for PCT, then why is literally everyone saying things like "best PCT I've ever had"? His futile augments are based on false science. Results, however, speak for themselves and are impossible to deny, except to hardened fools that can't admit when they are wrong. SHBG is not even "reduced" as you and he are claiming, just bound. Please get your facts straight and don't be another mindless sheep in the BC flock.
Originally Posted by sandinsciuz
11-28-2005 09:13 PM
I'm not the one to ask, but perhaps if unbound endogenous test is very low after a cycle (not zero, however), then doubling it (via Activate, or whatever) would clearly be of benefit (using your example). Hopefully the more knowledgable will be here soon...
Originally Posted by sandinsciuz
11-28-2005 10:46 PM
Since my PCT, The only supplements I'm currently taking are Activate, Alcar, Taurine, Citrulline and Flax. My body weight continued to 256 lbs, but for the last couple of weeks I've been staying at 254 lbs., which is still up from my cycle and PCT. I'm staying at about the same BF%(about 12%) My bench however is down considerably to 480 lbs raw. Part of that could be that I haven't been hitting it as hard as I should be lately. Overall I'm very happy with my cycle and PCT, and I would still say it was the best PCT I've ever done hands down.
Originally Posted by Grunt76
11-29-2005 12:53 AM
2 x 0 = 0?
You can't apply the rules of multiplication to biochemistry. It isn't the same application. The action of SHBG (aka Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) in the human body is to bind to human sex hormones (testosterone) and render them useless in order to acheive the body's ultimate goal of maintaining homeostasis. The entire reason one uses PH/AAS is to offset homeostasis and to force the body into a state of unnatural growth. In an effort to thwart these attempts the body and that crafty mother nature enact a bevy of responses to upset your plans of world domination. If you can decrease the amount of SHBG in the blood stream that is binding to and nullifying T, then the small amount of T that you have will be more beneficial to you. Beyond that, I would assume (granted I can not be sure) that as your levels of circulating androgens increased via exogenous means, your levels of SHBG would also increase, which could create a severely uncooperative state when the exogenous goodies have subsided. I hope that you understand the multiple goals associated with PCT, and how this process can be aided by the product in question. Indeed RXT is a good product, but so is nolva, which is also not a sufficient PCT if used by itself. Mechanism, Function, Efficiency, Productivity; these are the reasons I run a thourough PCT. Why do you?
You do don't you......................?
11-29-2005 12:47 PM
your testosterone is not at zero at the beginning of pct. it will take the small amount of test and free some of it up while the anti e is helping your test rise. the only problem I see with it is at wk 4 of pct you free test #'s might be higher than normal and will tell you body to stop increasing test because their is already enough. but if your still on the anti e you will continue to raise test #'s. try reading the write up and see if that explains it better than I can.
11-29-2005 05:01 PM
From the DesignerSupps "Activate" link posted above, here's what the manufacturer says:
Originally Posted by DR.D
ActivaTe™ knocks out SHBG allowing your own testosterone to be free—and build serious muscle.
So you're absolutely correct Dr.D because I mis-spoke and I apologize. I'll try to remember from here forward to use the more technical vernacular they employ, "knocks out" rather than my own poorly paraphrased "reduced".
And shame on me for citing such a misguided authority as Big Cat.
Evidently you didn't read my post very well because I didn't CLAIM anything, and neither did BC on the CEM thread. And at the end of my post I indicated I wasn't knocking the product. I was asking about how SHBG impacted PCT, and I was questioning whether PCT was an appropriate use of "Activate", since they produce another product "Rebound" for that very purpose.
But it sounds like you have it all figured out and know more about it than the DesignerSupps people. Congratulations.
11-29-2005 05:19 PM
11-29-2005 06:02 PM
I'll be starting my first PCT in about four weeks. I'm halfway through a cycle of e-max lmg. One of the power lifters at my gym convinced me to give it a try and I have to say, so far so good. I have already ordered some Rebound XT, Novedex Extreme, and Retain. I've been told to use Clomid, but all the places I looked at want a prescription. I want to keep the gains I've made (and the ones I hope to make during the last four weeks of this cycle). I've read about 10 different threads concerning PCT, and I'm more confused than ever. I ordered a couple bottles of SD, and I'm planning on doing a cycle after my PCT. Will these supps do the job for my PCT?
11-29-2005 06:25 PM
Sorry if I gave a bad impression my friend. I'm just so tired of BC's current crap, that's all. Your points are legit and I by no means "have it all figured out."
Originally Posted by sandinsciuz
11-29-2005 08:02 PM
11-29-2005 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by delta314
12-02-2005 03:13 PM
I just got my pct supps. A bottle of Novedex Extreme, Retain, Rebound XT, and Perfect Cycle. I have 26 days left of my first 8 week cycle with e-max lmg. Will these be enough for pct?
12-02-2005 04:51 PM
I will have to work some that activate next PCT.
01-24-2006 10:01 PM
muscles4life: im about to start a prop/tbol/igf-1 cycle. im interested in doing a pct similar to urs since u had such good results. my question is what anti-e's were u on during ur cycle?
01-25-2006 02:57 PM
HELP OF EXACT PCT Supps needed
Well I am trying not to get confused here - I was going to take PCT and RETAIN along with a Liver Care product - now Delta 314 and others have me considering adding Novedex XT and ActivaTe - can someone net this out as a standard set of PCT supps and which are choices from one company vs another:
It sounds like we need something to take care of the liver, something to suppress cortsiol and estrigen, and something to increase testosterone (lots of it). I was going to throw in a natural Test booster like LH BOOST for IDS (has Trib) - sounds like a supp with Fenugreek in it may help too. IDS TestoFen had it but is not being sold anymore. More advice please.
Novedex Extreme - anti-aromatase supplements preventing the production of estrogen aromatase inhibitor
Retain - This matrix of compounds including 17a-methyl-baET works by inhibiting a natural enzyme to lower muscle destroying cortisol levels in the muscle tissue. Cortisol is the number one reason for losing muscle mass after an anabolic compound cycle. Retain also increase T-3 production from the thyroid which causes an increase in metabolism and fat-loss.
Rebound XT, -Anabolic Xteme is proud to introduce the most efficient means of controlling estrogen and boosting natural testosterone available through supplementation. Rebound XT containing the highly bioavailable active ingredient Diene-3 will prevent your body from converting muscle-building testosterone into estrogen, while indirectly increasing the amount of total testosterone your body produces. This will allow you to gain strength, enhance recovery and build more muscle. Rebound XT which contains the ingredient Diene-3 can be used either as the core of a post (pro)hormone cycle therapy (PCT) plan, or as a stand-alone, to raise/restore natural testosterone levels and decrease estrogen levels. For best use, combine it with Retain for a well-rounded PCT Stack that lowers estrogen, controls cortisol, and boosts natural testosterone production.
I think this is the same as PCT - PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) is a hormone optimizer that can increase your natural testosterone production by as much as 400%, while combining a new powerful anti-aromatase that decreases estrogen levels in males an average of 50%. There is also a new and highly aromatase inhibiting compound that binds to aromatase more tightly and prevents estrogen conversion. Bottom line, when finishing any Anabolic Xtreme Cycle, no other recovery product will help you keep your gains like PCT.
and Perfect Cycle - liver care (milk thystle, etc) - take this before during and after - till liver enzymes are ok (after another blood test)
01-25-2006 03:41 PM
Novedex, Rebound and PCT are all variants on the theme of ATD and you will meet personal preference for any of them among the crowd.
Retain is almost a must, as is a SERM.
01-26-2006 09:14 AM
Thank you for the response - that helps alot. If I have this straight, I need:
1.) A SERM? (REBOUND XT, PCT, or Novedex) to inhibit estrogen & increase test
2.) RETAIN - to fight cortisol/catabolism
3.) A Liver Care Product (Milk Thystle, etc) - on & post cycle
4.) Optional - through in some natural test booster
01-26-2006 09:56 AM
Heh, Rebound, PCT and novedex are SARMs and also aromatase inhibitors, not SERMS, which are clomid and nolva.
And why do you so insist on your "liver care" in PCT? Did you not use it during your cycle? I'm not saying you don't need to use it in PCT, but if you used it during your cycle, there's no need to put it into your list of PCT supps...!??!
01-26-2006 10:01 AM
Grunt76 Yes I used Liver Care during the cycle - So if I used S ARMS am I covered, or do I need SERMS too?
Last cycle I ran with RETAIN and PCT from AX, and liver came back ok, but test came back slow. From 29 to 284 in 8 wks - originally at 700 a year back.