bulkmuscle
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I don't know how many of you currently do a typical PCT 2 weeks after your last shot of enanthate, but this should enlighten you on why you shouldn't. Very handy tool for calculating when to properly start your PCT.
..................mmmmmmmmmmm...................interesting!.............................Remember, half-life follows a logarithmic scale and not a linear scale. Example:
2000 mg of Test Enanthate is present. 10.5 days later, 1000 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 500 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 250 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 175 mg is present (etc.) The PCT calculator does appear to be correct in its theoretical calulcations.
I don't know what equation you are using but peak levels of esterified testosterone usually happen within 6 weeks. Just take a look from your cycle on the calculator, view the cycle from day 1 and you'll see the levels peak much earlier than your other calculator devised.I understand how the amount of esterfied hormone will build up in your body over time, but there will be a certain point where it will stop climbing, which using the equation I got from Skye, is around week 9-10 with test enanthate, figuring a 10.5 day half-life, so the absolute longest a shot of test enanthate could even be active would be 21 days, no matter if it was a 500mg shot or 2000mg shot, in 10.5 days half of the shot will be released and used up, then 10.5 days later the rest will be gone. I am sure there will still be some lingering around for awhile after that, but not enough to keep you suppressed 7 weeks later I doubt.
If someone with a better understanding of this subject could chime in and back me up, or prove me wrong, that would be great
This is true, but in my experience x is always less than it should be. If you take a 1000mg shot of test e. on day 0, the value is shifted such than in 10.5 days only 400mg remains instead of the predicted 5. More is hydrolyzed initially and the calculation does not account for this phenomena. It is a matter of common experience because most fellas shoot more often than every 5 days with this ester.Remember, half-life follows a logarithmic scale and not a linear scale. Example:
2000 mg of Test Enanthate is present. 10.5 days later, 1000 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 500 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 250 mg is present. 10.5 days later, 175 mg is present (etc.) The PCT calculator does appear to be correct in its theoretical calulcations.
More is hydrolyzed initially? What are you basing this statement on?This is true, but in my experience x is always less than it should be. If you take a 1000mg shot of test e. on day 0, the value is shifted such than in 10.5 days only 400mg remains instead of the predicted 5. More is hydrolyzed initially and the calculation does not account for this phenomena.
Most fellas do shoot more often than 5 days with enanthate. Why are you stating the obvious?It is a matter of common experience because most fellas shoot more often than every 5 days with this ester.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. That is why you should not go cold turkey off long esters.It is absurd to leave a 40 day gap in between a cycle and PCT!
You kind of answered your own question. If more is not hydrolysed initially, then why shoot more often that every 5 days? Because in the real world, that calculation needs a special factor in it to account for this. It is good as a guideline though when planning doses for a cycle.More is hydrolyzed initially? What are you basing this statement on?
Most fellas do shoot more often than 5 days with enanthate. Why are you stating the obvious?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. That is why you should not go cold turkey off long esters.
You shoot more often than 5 days with enanthate so that your testosterone levels don't "seasaw" significantly and additionally to maintain a higher level of testosterone.You kind of answered your own question. If more is not hydrolysed initially, then why shoot more often that every 5 days?
No, I totally don't agree w/ 6wks. Unless you can plan it just right, then that's fine. And yes, you can cut your shots at 6wks, or whatever, and finish off with an oral, or switch to a shorter acting ester. But 2 or 3 wks tops if you don't wanna blow the cycle. Just do a longer PCT. I have never agreed that recovery is impossible unless the last mg of ester is gone from your system. I have successfully cheated and bridged too many PCTs to believe that and can tell you otherwise.Doc, are you in agreement with the idea that for long runs of test E, your PCT should indeed start up to 6 weeks after the last shot? If so, it seems like running something or some things (much shorter acting) for most or all of those weeks is advisable?
I gave the link to the calculator I was using bulk, did the link not show up? I did read the FAQ, and it really didnt answer any of my questions, if it would have, I probably wouldnt have asked them lol.I don't know what equation you are using but peak levels of esterified testosterone usually happen within 6 weeks. Just take a look from your cycle on the calculator, view the cycle from day 1 and you'll see the levels peak much earlier than your other calculator devised.
Anyways, a few of your questions are also answered in the FAQ on that page. Give it a read, its fairly short.
I agree with the idea of not going off a long ester like that, but if you do, there is no point to PCT if you don't wait the proper time, as you will simply just get shutback down.No, I totally don't agree w/ 6wks. Unless you can plan it just right, then that's fine. And yes, you can cut your shots at 6wks, or whatever, and finish off with an oral, or switch to a shorter acting ester. But 2 or 3 wks tops if you don't wanna blow the cycle. Just do a longer PCT. I have never agreed that recovery is impossible unless the last mg of ester is gone from your system. I have successfully cheated and bridged too many PCTs to believe that and can tell you otherwise.
I am pretty sure DR.D already knew this he even said first off that most guys shoot more often than every 5 days, which agreed with what you said, so I see no reason to argue that.You shoot more often than 5 days with enanthate so that your testosterone levels don't "seasaw" significantly and additionally to maintain a higher level of testosterone.
Sorry, I didn't see the link Reading through it nowI gave the link to the calculator I was using bulk, did the link not show up? I did read the FAQ, and it really didnt answer any of my questions, if it would have, I probably wouldnt have asked them lol.
I agree with you on how it would be best to not stop cold turkey from long esters and run they cycle out a few more weeks with either an oral or a much shorter estered injectable.
Would make sense that having exogenous test in your body would not hinder recovery b/c your body bases its shutdown on test production based on your natty levels, right? Therefore, if you've got a small amount of exogenous test left in the system--the body has no clue it's synthetic--so long as your test levels are within normal range, supression will no longer continue and recovery will be underway, right? Therefore, I'd assume even if you had like 100mg or so of Test E (etc) in your system, recovery would begin. A TRT dose of 100mg test/wk gives test levels around low-mid normal range, so I don't see any reason supression would take place (or at least not much supression) at that level.No, I totally don't agree w/ 6wks. Unless you can plan it just right, then that's fine. And yes, you can cut your shots at 6wks, or whatever, and finish off with an oral, or switch to a shorter acting ester. But 2 or 3 wks tops if you don't wanna blow the cycle. Just do a longer PCT. I have never agreed that recovery is impossible unless the last mg of ester is gone from your system. I have successfully cheated and bridged too many PCTs to believe that and can tell you otherwise.
I'm not trying to cause a ruckus eitherI am pretty sure DR.D already knew this he even said first off that most guys shoot more often than every 5 days, which agreed with what you said, so I see no reason to argue that.
When he was explaining more is hydrolyzed initially than what the equations tend to figure, that explains why you would shoot test enan more often than every 5 days, yet you disagree with him stating that more is hydrolyzed than what the equation gives. If you agree with your equation being 100% correct, you should be able to get away with shooting every 5 days and keeping blood levels fairly stable with that dosing protocol since 5 days is about half of the 10.5 day halflife. So do you agree with your calculator or not? I am not trying to start any heated arguments, just want to figure out what exactly is right
t1/2 is hte time it takes for "half" of the hormone to dissappear. Its not linear, either. I forgot the formula, but its definitely not a linear decay.I'm not trying to cause a ruckus either
He said that if you inject 1000mg of enanthate, in 10.5 days there will be 400mg of esterified enanthate left. Then he gave no reason for this "magical" disappearance of 100mg. I just wanted to know what his reason was. A half-life is a half-life. Nothing changes about it just because it is your first shot.
I don't know what your t1/2 is suppose to mean. I didn't say it was linear either.t1/2 is hte time it takes for "half" of the hormone to dissappear. Its not linear, either. I forgot the formula, but its definitely not a linear decay.
"Magical", OK, now you're starting to sound a bit derogatory. Please do not use fruity terms like that with me again. You can use whatever equation you like in your 'magical' world where the skies are purple and unicorns run free, I could really give a **** less.I'm not trying to cause a ruckus either
He said that if you inject 1000mg of enanthate, in 10.5 days there will be 400mg of esterified enanthate left. Then he gave no reason for this "magical" disappearance of 100mg. I just wanted to know what his reason was. A half-life is a half-life. Nothing changes about it just because it is your first shot.
t1/2 is the short-hand notation for spelling out "half life".....How is that a half-life formula?
:goodpost:"Magical", OK, now you're starting to sound a bit derogatory. Please do not use fruity terms like that with me again. You can use whatever equation you like in your 'magical' world where the skies are purple and unicorns run free, I could really give a **** less.
Anyway, if you must know, the t1/2 is biphasic. So no, a half life is not a half live. Each metabolite of test has a different half live and the enzymes that cleave the ester are not steady. That's why more hydrolysis occurs initially. If it didn't, 1 shot ever 5 days would achieve steady state in just a few weeks. Plus, much of the hormone leaves the sight of deposit only to be sheltered in adipose tissue or converted into other esters of the bodies choosing. You are trying to make this black and white. It's not. Research the issue if you really want to know, I don't have the time to offer links or do it for you (because I already know), but please be respectful in the future. I was only trying to help elaborate on your equation when you decided to get shitty. I really don't take much ****.
:goodpost:If you believe this is the best approach then I encourage you to wait 6 weeks before starting post cycle and see how you feel.
Alright well I don't know why you were posting that then because no one was debating what a half-life was.t1/2 is the short-hand notation for spelling out "half life".....
I don't stop cycles on long esters anymore so I would never be required to start that late.If you believe this is the best approach then I encourage you to wait 6 weeks before starting post cycle and see how you feel.
No need to get all upset. I didn't intend to offend.Anyway, if you must know, the t1/2 is biphasic. So no, a half life is not a half live. Each metabolite of test has a different half live and the enzymes that cleave the ester are not steady.
The majority of exogenous testosterone migrates to fatty tissue? Maybe if you're injecting into it...otherwise it resides in the muscle tissue until its picked up by the blood.Plus, much of the hormone leaves the sight of deposit only to be sheltered in adipose tissue or converted into other esters of the bodies choosing. You are trying to make this black and white. It's not.
I have attempted to research your claims and I've come up with nothing. Perhaps you can provide me with a couple journal articles that I can read? I have no problem agreeing with you or admitting I am wrong, but when I can't come up with anything to back up your claims, bells are ringing.Research the issue if you really want to know, I don't have the time to offer links or do it for you (because I already know), but please be respectful in the future. I was only trying to help elaborate on your equation when you decided to get shitty. I really don't take much ****.
Okay genius....I referenced half life with the notation "t1/2" in a sentence. You asked what t1/2 meant!!!!! So, I said t1/2 = half life.Alright well I don't know why you were posting that then because no one was debating what a half-life was.
See! ^^I don't know what your t1/2 is suppose to mean. I didn't say it was linear either.
Um no you gave the definition of a half-life which was already clear to everyone. I simply asked about the abbreivation which I'd not seen before.Okay genius....I referenced half life with the notation "t1/2" in a sentence. You asked what t1/2 meant!!!!! So, I said t1/2 = half life.
Geezus....I think we have a newest "most dense" material on our hands....and its surrounding someones cranal cavity.
Captain Obvious strikes again.t1/2 is hte time it takes for "half" of the hormone to dissappear.
Kwycke,Okay genius....I referenced half life with the notation "t1/2" in a sentence. You asked what t1/2 meant!!!!! So, I said t1/2 = half life.
Geezus....I think we have a newest "most dense" material on our hands....and its surrounding someones cranal cavity.
YOu were implying a linear relationship...therefore 1/2lift = 2x1/4 life in your little brain when that is not the case.Captain Obvious strikes again.
Now do you see what I said what I said?
No...Dr.D is usually right...I need to get smacked around from time to time :lol:not going to read the thread, but Kwycke and Dr. D usually right.
whoever is arguing with them is probably wrong and a fool
I never implied a linear relationship.YOu were implying a linear relationship...therefore 1/2lift = 2x1/4 life in your little brain when that is not the case.
Its okay...I'm sure the gods take pity on the stupid...afterall, their fuckup.
This isn't simple biochemistry so it isn't common knowledge. If it was, I would have no problem backing up his claims by researching it.What you dont get is you asking Dr.D to backup his claims is like asking Steven Hawkings to prove a basic physics principle.
He's earned the right not to have to "prove himself" to someone like you. Read up, bulkego.
Thanks for adding something constructive to the discussion!not going to read the thread, but Kwycke and Dr. D usually right.
whoever is arguing with them is probably wrong and a fool
sorry... consider it comic relief, I haven't even read the thread. It's been a long lousy day. forgive my comment - I didn't even know who the argument was between.Thanks for adding something constructive to the discussion!
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