Still Shutdown post PCT - what to do?
- 05-19-2013, 01:15 PM
Still Shutdown post PCT - what to do?
I am still shut down following a 30 day Nolva 20mg/day PCT. My cycle was Epistane 30/40/50/60. I actually cut it short. I was going to run 6 weeks, but I was feeling so lethargic even after reducing the epi dosage, that I decided to stop and never again cycle without test. I stopped taking the Nolva yesterday, and am wondering what I should do.
I have since learned that Clomid is better for restoring test and that Nolva is best for gyno. I will never again run a PCT without Clomid. My question is, 1. Is this normal to be shut down still? 2. Will I eventually bounce back, or is there a possibility that something is wrong? 3. Should I just wait it out or should I order some Clomid? It would take at least 2 weeks for it to arrive.
There is an outside possibility that the research chem Nolva I'm using is bunk. If it is, then technically I'm not taking anything for PCT. With this scenario, how long might it take for test levels to return to normal naturally, cause maybe that is what is going on?
- 05-19-2013, 08:59 PM
Not sure bud. Always order prescription clomid/nolva etc. Get blood work done to see where your truly at.
05-20-2013, 08:37 AM
First, you should have bloods run so that we actually know what we're dealing with. Epistane isn't much of a cycle IMO. So it would be valuable to know exactly where your at.
If/Assuming your shutdown, I would run a 2nd (better) pct.
Clomid 50/25/25/25 (maybe even 25 eod last week)
Natty Test Booster, my choice is HCGenerate.
The clomid and natty test boosters are a must in pct.
Then you may want to add in some daa and maybe some formasurge.
Then remember, 'time on' = cycle + pct + 2nd pct (in your case). Time off must at least be equal to time on.
05-20-2013, 08:04 PM
05-20-2013, 08:32 PM
I just ordered it. Got CLOMIPHENE CITRATE 50MG x 40ct . So I will be 2 pills shy of a 100/100/50/50 PCT. So I will end 2 days early. I don't think that will be problem.
05-21-2013, 10:53 AM
05-21-2013, 11:24 AM
05-21-2013, 12:52 PM
Just how critical is it that a product like HCGenerate be added to a PCT? I understand how El Hefe feels, and appreciate his input - but does everybody agree that HCGenerate is absolutely necessary? Over at steroid.com forums, the veteran AAS guys with their beginner cycle stickies never mention it.
05-21-2013, 06:40 PM
It's not a must, but it helps. Really, most people try to incorporate real HCG into their cycle and the beginning of pct.
HCGen is sometimes used in addition to, or in some instances, instead of HCG.
I start HCGen halfway through my cycle to keep my nuts functioning. Sometimes, they've already shrunk mid cycle and HCGen brings them back. I then continue it through PCT.
But no, it's not a must. But one should address the need to enter pct with their nuts functioning. That way your pct will be easier and more productive.
05-21-2013, 06:44 PM
Also, time off is critical especially if you've had trouble recovering.
If I did an 8 week cycle and a 4 week pct with recovery problems, I would probably stay off longer than the standard 12 weeks. I might weight 16 weeks.
05-21-2013, 07:01 PM
With respect to those who use high dose clomid - I don't believe 100 mg is necessary. Often makes guys feel like emotional bitches. Maybe try 100 mg for the first few days.Originally Posted by 1976pianoman
There is good data that 25 mg often raises Test 50-200% with little to no sides. And if one tapers down slowly, they'll often keep a slightly elevated test level for months or longer.
05-22-2013, 11:33 AM
You're not recovered from your first endeavor yet, and it would definitely be a good idea to give yourself additional time after this '2nd PCT' for your body to reacclimate to normal hormone levels.
Waiting just one month and then diving back in with another cycle when you haven't figured out how to get yourself back to normal is not a good idea.
That being said, you could get by without HCgenerate, there are plenty of cheaper effective options out there.
05-22-2013, 12:04 PM
05-22-2013, 12:17 PM
DAA for $16 http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/o...100-grams.html (this is best when run with an AI)
Erase for $30 http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/p...e-90-caps.html (a decent otc AI for the price)
Endosurge Turbo BOGO for $40 http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/b...-capsules.html (at $20 a bottle, this covers a lot of the bases needed to enhance natural test production)
- If you can only do one of these, I'd recommend the Endosurge or the Erase. DAA by itself is ok, but is best IMO when run with an AI and with antioxidant support.
05-22-2013, 01:03 PM
Okay great. I just ordered Erase. So my 2nd PCT will be Clomid + Erase, which I'm hoping will get me back in order. Should I use the Erase per the instructions on the bottle?
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
ok bud dnt take this the wrong way here. but have you gotten bloodwork done to show youre actually shutdown? because it seems more like youre lacking the mental aspect needed to cycle gear correctly. i have a feeling you just think youre shutdown because its very unlikely that epistane for 4 weeks would shut anyone down.
and if im right and you run an actual test cycle, then youll find out what shutdown really feels like
hcgen is just a glorified overpriced test booster. look at the ingredients and ask yourself, what are you really paying $60+ for? fadogia, fenugreek, and trib? thats not hcg
05-22-2013, 01:36 PM
u might only need clomid. test boosters are really hormone boosters. use what u got. rc clomid is not as good as scribed.
here a question for the team... does running test base with a ph prevent or reduce the shutdown. i though it was more just as test support while on cycle.
i never bothered with test base
05-22-2013, 01:37 PM
05-22-2013, 01:37 PM
its a support. if anything, adding another exo hormone will be even more suppressive. the test or dht bases are primarily ment to deal with lethargy
05-22-2013, 01:57 PM
I know I'm shut down because my libido is completely gone. I'm very in touch with my body as far as my sex drive does. If I don't have sex, I have to jerk off at least once every two days. It's as common a thing for me as eating and breathing. Yet now, I have not even thought about sex for many weeks. It's actually quite nice - it's a freedom I have never had before. Yet clearly, it indicates a shut down.
I am not bothered by what you said, but I respectfully disagree about the mental thing. I am one tough SOB. I'm a recovering addict/alcoholic. The stuff I have put my body through - the withdrawals mostly, were horrific. I can handle quite a bit. 15 years of abuse toughened me up. I know epi is mild for some, but I have read reviews of others having to put it down because of similar problems. In fact, there was another post here on this site recently from another guy experiencing something similar from an epi cycle. My only assumption can be that it effects us all differently.
05-22-2013, 02:18 PM
BTW - the epi sides were in fact manageable at 40mg. I just felt that the problems I was experiencing creatively as a musician were not worth the minor gains I was making. The lethargy was really effecting me at the piano in a strange way that maybe not all of you would understand. Heck, I didn't even understand it. I never would have thought there was a connection between test levels and my music. I'm sure if I had a square 9-5 job doing anything else, then it would not have been a problem. I am willing to take on some terrible sides, but only if the gains are considerable. I'm even willing to curb my music for a few months if I have to - but only if I'm making some serious progress with my cycle.
05-22-2013, 02:22 PM
is that your only indication of shutdown? because there are reports of finastride killing male libido
btw i aologize if i insulted you earlier. but as an ex addict, im sure youre aware of your past impulsive personality because that is the root of addiction. dont let it lead you into the steroid scene. i only say this because you mentioned planning another cycle a month after pct
05-22-2013, 02:37 PM
Yes, I see how that cycle timing thing looked, but that was simply a mistake in my ongoing steroid education. Having to learn about this stuff in the underground scene has been precarious at best. Lot's of "duh" Homer Simpson moments. I will absolutely not cycle again for many months. Yes, impulsivity can be a problem in other aspects of my life, food mostly! So far it hasn't been a problem in this realm. I will be careful. Thank you.
05-22-2013, 02:44 PM
thats the same prob i had my last cycle. im also expecting it this time around.
i was able to get an erection but had no drive. sex was more like a chore.
i did sd 10/20/30/40....pct was
daa || clomid || erase
i dont think its low test or high estro, might have something to do with prolactin. im not fukin with daa this time around. i think daa was the culprite. i did a natty daa and erase prior. daa has a bad effect on me for some reason.
this pct is going to be
clomid + erase + generic natty
any way took me longer to recover prolly 3-4 months including pct to really feel normal.
keep ur cals and good fats high for a little while
05-22-2013, 02:57 PM
05-22-2013, 03:01 PM
05-22-2013, 07:22 PM
This ^^. Exo hormones will shut you down. Test base does help with lethargy but also sex drive.Originally Posted by OnionKnight
05-22-2013, 07:34 PM
Yes, HCGen is overpriced. And I'm not much of a supp guy. I dont respond to 90+% of them. In fact, I think most are crap and I hate they way they get whored out on so many boards. So I'm not that guy. Also, there are very likely superior test boosters to HCGen. I think DAA and many other boosters are fine in PCT.Originally Posted by OnionKnight
I use HCGen for my nuts. That's its only fit in this program. I use it half way through cycle when my nuts start to shrink. Nuts plump up again, loads increase, etc. Is clomid better, yes. But clomid doesn't work during cycle. So it's good to extend the use of HCGen to and through PCT.
Not only is it expensive, but its out of stock every other month. So if you want it for a cycle or pct, better buy in advance.
05-22-2013, 11:12 PM
ive had some problems with DAA aswell. it seemed more difficult to get it going, but my functioning has returned to normal. does DAA raise prolactin?
05-22-2013, 11:25 PM
I've ordered PES Erase and I'm trying to understand exactly what it is. It's an AI? That is news to me. Maybe someone here could explain in layman's terms what androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione is? Thanks!
I heard a guy say on one forum that this products decreases libido which is not what I wanted to hear. Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.
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