nolva and letro?

[arluckydog]

Can you start pct with nolva and then switch to letro to dry me out more? If so when and how to switch? Also is it safe to take varden while on pct?

 

[southparkbbb]

nolva sucks for restoritng hpta. get clomid or torem for pct

a serm and an AI are completely different. run ur pct with the serm, and only use the ai if ur estrogen rebounds after

 

[jimbuick]

nolva sucks for restoritng hpta. get clomid or torem for pct

a serm and an AI are completely different. run ur pct with the serm, and only use the ai if ur estrogen rebounds after

Any science to back that up?

General consensus says clomid is better, but I've seen a few resources that would suggest nolva is just as good.

 

[southparkbbb]

Any science to back that up?

General consensus says clomid IA better, but I've seen a few resources that would suggest nolva is just as good.

heres something that support torem> nolva or clomid

"As the medical community became more aware of the side-effects associated with clomiphene and tamoxifen treatment, newer and safer SERMs, such as toremifene and raloxifene hit the developmental fast track. Toremifene appears to be less liver toxic, but it is an analog of tamoxifen, so it also carries many of the related genotoxic effects.48,49 Raloxifene appears to be even safer by being the least liver toxic, and not having any potential issue with the uterus or prostate.50-52 Unfortunately, raloxifene has been associated with a higher incidence of thromboembolism52 (arterial blockage), and also has very low oral absorption, making it an expensive alternative at a typical 120mg/day dose.53 Still, raloxifene could presumably be equally effective as Clomid or Nolvadex at restoring HPTA function, while imparting less side effects.53 Newer SERMs are already being evaluated such as bazedoxifene, arzoxifene, and lasofoxifene, in hopes of reducing risk even further. "


looking for a nolva study atm

 

[jimbuick]

heres something that support torem> nolva or clomid

"As the medical community became more aware of the side-effects associated with clomiphene and tamoxifen treatment, newer and safer SERMs, such as toremifene and raloxifene hit the developmental fast track. Toremifene appears to be less liver toxic, but it is an analog of tamoxifen, so it also carries many of the related genotoxic effects.48,49 Raloxifene appears to be even safer by being the least liver toxic, and not having any potential issue with the uterus or prostate.50-52 Unfortunately, raloxifene has been associated with a higher incidence of thromboembolism52 (arterial blockage), and also has very low oral absorption, making it an expensive alternative at a typical 120mg/day dose.53 Still, raloxifene could presumably be equally effective as Clomid or Nolvadex at restoring HPTA function, while imparting less side effects.53 Newer SERMs are already being evaluated such as bazedoxifene, arzoxifene, and lasofoxifene, in hopes of reducing risk even further. "

looking for a nolva study atm

What is that from?

Also, it sounds as if it is in relation to long term usage. Not a typical 4 week PCT.

Although it is impossible to know when taking it out of context.

 

[southparkbbb]

What is that from?

Also, it sounds as if it is in relation to long term usage. Not a typical 4 week PCT.

Although it is impossible to know when taking it out of context.

hmm kinda hard to pull nolva studys since most are related to reduction of breast cancer and there a lot of conflicting info saying its identical to clomid in terms of results, but also many boards and users claiming its not as effective, that it messed up their pct, etc.


however, i was able to find a quote by an author of a study about nolva reducing IGF-1

"by Bill Roberts - Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.

It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile."



whether they are the same, im not sure. ive personally ran a nolva only pct and a clomid only pct and i felt a lot better with clomid.


im defintly gonna give torem a try next time though

 

[jimbuick]

hmm kinda hard to pull nolva studys since most are related to reduction of breast cancer and there a lot of conflicting info saying its identical to clomid in terms of results, but also many boards and users claiming its not as effective, that it messed up their pct, etc.

however, i was able to find a quote by an author of a study about nolva reducing IGF-1

"by Bill Roberts - Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.

It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile."

whether they are the same, im not sure. ive personally ran a nolva only pct and a clomid only pct and i felt a lot better with clomid.

im defintly gonna give torem a try next time though

I've heard good anecdotal reports about torem but that's just anecdote.

My point is that you should not just spew what you've heard on forums as if they are fact when there is little to back up those claims.