Torem vs clomid

[ka0tik]

It's for a 6 week hdrol cycle. Nolva is out of the question due to potential hairloss issues (I'm prone to mpb).
So the question is torem vs clomid?
Haven't heard of any hair issues with either. Torem might be better on the test side while clomid might be better on the HPTA side.

I hear clomid can get a lil moody but other than that is great. As for torem there isn't as much info on sides and general tolerance that I have read at least.

 

[ka0tik]

Also as far as ancillaries go. I generally go with the mentality of less is more in that some might be a waste or cancel out the effectiveness of others. What do you think about just the basics like BCAA, multi, fish oil, DAA, and creatine. Maybe throw in some extra antioxidants hear and there.

Do you think any more is necessary or would be any more beneficial?

 

[Red9]

I personally have never used Clomid but I hear good things on it with the exception of the emotional instability it can create in certain people. But that's not to say it would do that to you, it's just one of those things where you have to find out for

I have never once heard a negative thing about Torem from first hand users, and there's plenty research to show the benefits of using it over Nolva and Clomid. For one, it is shown to lower bad cholesterol levels while bringing back the good one. Has great influence on the HPTA and testes, while doing it much quicker also than the Nolva or Clomid.

 

[Red9]

Also as far as ancillaries go. I generally go with the mentality of less is more in that some might be a waste or cancel out the effectiveness of others. What do you think about just the basics like BCAA, multi, fish oil, DAA, and creatine. Maybe throw in some extra antioxidants hear and there.

Do you think any more is necessary or would be any more beneficial?

You should consider running a liver protectant, either before/during/or after cycle.

And something for your prostate; Saw palmetto. Everything else looks fine.


Lay down your cycle plan, dosing and including all your supports and PCT...you'll get more feedback and AM can help you better understand what to do and how to approach the cycle.

What's your age, weight, height, lifting experience, etc..?

 

[ka0tik]

You should consider running a liver protectant, either before/during/or after cycle.

And something for your prostate; Saw palmetto. Everything else looks fine.


Lay down your cycle plan, dosing and including all your supports and PCT...you'll get more feedback and AM can help you better understand what to do and how to approach the cycle.

What's your age, weight, height, lifting experience, etc..?

age 24, been lifting since i was 15, 6'0 165 12-13%bf been as heavy as 205 (14-15% bf). im at my lightest. looking for a clean bulk.

definitely understand the support supps. i plan on using AI cycle support while on hdrol but not sure if its worth it during the pct part. especially due to how it messes with the CYP3A4-6 enzyme inhibitors...

i am willing to buy extras, maybe get on AI stoked after torem?

i also have another bottle of suppress-c transdermal, wondering if thats worth throwing in during pct or just waiting to use it as a standalone

 

[Red9]

Honestly man, you should NOT be running a prohormone at all. I'm 5'6 and 155...and I'm still pretty.skinny.

You should at least get up to 180 natty before u run Halodrol, or any compound for that matter..

 

[Bodock]

Do you need to run liver support with Serms? TUDCA? I read that milk thistle can hurt the effectiveness of Serms...

 

[Red9]

Do you need to run liver support with Serms? TUDCA? I read that milk thistle can hurt the effectiveness of Serms...

Milk thistle is not going to hinder the effect of a SERM. Is it a good idea to run liver support during ? Sure. It's never a bad idea to use TUDCA or a good liver support, because RC SERMS can be very hepatoxic

 

[MANotaur]

It's for a 6 week hdrol cycle. Nolva is out of the question due to potential hairloss issues (I'm prone to mpb).
So the question is torem vs clomid?
Haven't heard of any hair issues with either. Torem might be better on the test side while clomid might be better on the HPTA side.

I hear clomid can get a lil moody but other than that is great. As for torem there isn't as much info on sides and general tolerance that I have read at least.

where on earth did you hear that nolva exasurbates MPB? thats a new one for me. And all serms do the same thing they bind to the estrogen receptor to block estrogen from binding there.

the difference between between the three is only there molecular structure and binding afinity. Clomid requires a much higher dose than either torem or nolva but the end result is the same. All serms effect the HPTA and which in itself helps boost and encourage natural production.

the benifit to clomid is it tends to work a little faster but it doesnt have the same affinity for the receptor like nolva or torem does. thats why you hear about people stacking the two.

basically what you need to do bro is get your labs done and just find out what works best for you. I stick with nolva because it worked great for me my first time around and the way i see it is there no reason to fix somethin thats not broken. Theres other people here though that swear by clomid and others by torem and theres a cult following that use combinations. it all comes down to a matter of preference though.

 

[ka0tik]

where on earth did you hear that nolva exasurbates MPB? thats a new one for me. And all serms do the same thing they bind to the estrogen receptor to block estrogen from binding there.

the difference between between the three is only there molecular structure and binding afinity. Clomid requires a much higher dose than either torem or nolva but the end result is the same. All serms effect the HPTA and which in itself helps boost and encourage natural production.

the benifit to clomid is it tends to work a little faster but it doesnt have the same affinity for the receptor like nolva or torem does. thats why you hear about people stacking the two.

basically what you need to do bro is get your labs done and just find out what works best for you. I stick with nolva because it worked great for me my first time around and the way i see it is there no reason to fix somethin thats not broken. Theres other people here though that swear by clomid and others by torem and theres a cult following that use combinations. it all comes down to a matter of preference though.

word, thanks for the response.
as for thinning hair and tamoxifen, look at drugs.com under "tamoxifen side effects" (sry i cant link yet). its actually common on many other websites like rxlist, etc. however torem and clomid both do not have those side effects listed on the same websites...

 

[ka0tik]

Honestly man, you should NOT be running a prohormone at all. I'm 5'6 and 155...and I'm still pretty.skinny.

You should at least get up to 180 natty before u run Halodrol, or any compound for that matter..

i disagree. i hit a strength plateau when i was at my biggest and am still pushing the same/similar weight 40lbs lighter. When my weight goes up, my BF goes up. id like to weigh no more than 180, but with no more body fat and ideally less. ive been trying to lower my bf% for years. now that its getting to be almost respectably low, id like to gain clean lbs and break a few strength records.

 

[Bodock]

Milk thistle is not going to hinder the effect of a SERM. Is it a good idea to run liver support during ? Sure. It's never a bad idea to use TUDCA or a good liver support, because RC SERMS can be very hepatoxic

This post had some good info on Serms being hindered by Milk Thistle.

*ttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/219748-toremifene-citrate.ht*

(Sorry I don't have 150 post et so I cant post the direct link )

 

[PintSizPopeye]

basically what you need to do bro is get your labs done and just find out what works best for you. I stick with nolva because it worked great for me my first time around and the way i see it is there no reason to fix somethin thats not broken. Theres other people here though that swear by clomid and others by torem and theres a cult following that use combinations. it all comes down to a matter of preference though.

So I've had bloodwork done both off cycle to check recovery and on cycle to make sure my estro/lipids are in check, but can they be done during pct? I would like to check that the serms are working properly and recovery is going as planned (as long as validate the rc aren't underdosed), but am not quite sure what I'd look for in the tests.

 

[Rodja]

So I've had bloodwork done both off cycle to check recovery and on cycle to make sure my estro/lipids are in check, but can they be done during pct? I would like to check that the serms are working properly and recovery is going as planned (as long as validate the rc aren't underdosed), but am not quite sure what I'd look for in the tests.

Ideally, they're done prior to PCT and then 2-3 weeks after PCT to check recovery. You cannot get accurate testing during PCT.

 

[MANotaur]

Ideally, they're done prior to PCT and then 2-3 weeks after PCT to check recovery. You cannot get accurate testing during PCT.

^^This. If you get it done during PCT your numbers are more than likely gonna be skewed

 

[PintSizPopeye]

Ideally, they're done prior to PCT and then 2-3 weeks after PCT to check recovery. You cannot get accurate testing during PCT.

^^This. If you get it done during PCT your numbers are more than likely gonna be skewed

Thanks, at least now I won't waste my money on that test if it won't tell me anything. That's about how long I've waited before so ill just stick with what I've been doing then.

 

[ka0tik]

so i decided to go with torem for my pct. in addition to torem, i will be taking creatine, formula x (DAA and L carnitine l tartrate), multi vitamin (orange triad), fish oil, and oximega super greens (controlled labs). what do you think about adding CEL transdermal cort block in 2 weeks into the PCT?

also, what do you guys think of a 20 day pct? 5 days at 120, 5 days at 90, 5 days at 60, and 5 days at 30.

my reasoning behind this is that i would like to be done with my PCT and my entire cycle in 9 weeks as opposed to 10 so that I can go on my spring vacation a week out of PCT as opposed to the last day of PCT so that I would feel comfortable about drinking. i would continue to use the cortisol blocker for the full month, including when i am on vacation. other supps on vacation would be limited to a multivitamin. i would consider throwing in something like AI PCT (aka AI stoked) after i am done with torem.

 

[ka0tik]

or what about 1st day at 60 (because i will be taking 50mg of hdrol instead of 75), the next 2 days at 120, 5 days at 90, 1 week at 60, 1 week at 30?

dosing will be done before bed with liquid

 

[anaboliks]

^^This. If you get it done during PCT your numbers are more than likely gonna be skewed

Ideally, they're done prior to PCT and then 2-3 weeks after PCT to check recovery. You cannot get accurate testing during PCT.

or what about 1st day at 60 (because i will be taking 50mg of hdrol instead of 75), the next 2 days at 120, 5 days at 90, 1 week at 60, 1 week at 30?

dosing will be done before bed with liquid

While these posts are accurate I don't necessarily agree. I wouldn't mind knowing that my serm is legit and working while in PCT. Sure your values will be totally crazy but it would make me feel comfortable that I am recovering.

 

[PintSizPopeye]

While these posts are accurate I don't necessarily agree. I wouldn't mind knowing that my serm is legit and working while in PCT. Sure your values will be totally crazy but it would make me feel comfortable that I am recovering.

What exactly would you look for in a pct blood test? An increase in lh/fsh values? Test levels would still be pretty bad at that point.

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[anaboliks]

What exactly would you look for in a pct blood test? An increase in lh/fsh values? Test levels would still be pretty bad at that point.

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I've seen some post bloodwork taken during PCT and their entire hormonal panel was sky high. I cant remember off the top of my head if it was the third week or what. Obviously his serm was working and was legit. It would just make me feel comfortable is all. I haven't done this before but I think I will in the future just to satisfy any inkling of a doubt and put my mind at ease. Sometimes I am skeptical of the research companies because I have long hard recoveries in the past.

 

[PintSizPopeye]

I've seen some post bloodwork taken during PCT and their entire hormonal panel was sky high. I cant remember off the top of my head if it was the third week or what. Obviously his serm was working and was legit. It would just make me feel comfortable is all. I haven't done this before but I think I will in the future just to satisfy any inkling of a doubt and put my mind at ease. Sometimes I am skeptical of the research companies because I have long hard recoveries in the past.

So over at PHF there are a lot of bloodwork posts, and it does seem like during pct bloodwork isn't unheard of. Looks like test levels shouldn't be completely trashed after 2 weeks of pct or so.
I'm in the same boat as you and would feel better knowing midway through pct if my serm was legit so I could purchase another if needed before it's too late. I know the ai I purchased from the same rc is definitely legit, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

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[Kingmjb]

So over at PHF there are a lot of bloodwork posts, and it does seem like during pct bloodwork isn't unheard of. Looks like test levels shouldn't be completely trashed after 2 weeks of pct or so.
I'm in the same boat as you and would feel better knowing midway through pct if my serm was legit so I could purchase another if needed before it's too late. I know the ai I purchased from the same rc is definitely legit, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

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I can chip in here, I ran Alpha mass for 8 weeks, and I was running it quite high, last 2 weeks were around 10-12 caps. Anyways. I came off the cycle 2 weeks ago, on the Monday. I felt like death warmed up, I had Torem on hand, but I used 90mg and was unable to function, maybe just the low test who knows? Anyways. I went to the doctors got all the test done on my heart, got bloods done. Test came back today and my test is low, not shutdown but pretty suppressed. I had to stop Torem 5 days in as it just didnt agree with me, and ran OTC, Forma Stanzol 5 x 2 daily and DAA with some PCT assist.

I added Torem in today and will run it at 60mg for 1 week and 30mg for another week. I am getting bloods around March.