Discussion of Blood Results and effectiveness of Triptorelin in PCT

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    Discussion of Blood Results and effectiveness of Triptorelin in PCT


    Hello fellow AM members!

    I'm excited to say that we will finally be getting some real, tangible, trustworthy blood tests to help summarize the effectiveness of a few different compounds in PCT. Hopefully, we will learn more about these particular areas of PCT approach:

    1) Effectiveness of Triptorelin at kickstarting HPTA in PCT
    2) Effectiveness of UDCA in liver protection
    3) The conclusive evidence of running a low dose oral AAS in PCT w/ Triptorelin, SERM and AI in regards to total T, LH, FSH and liver values.

    Before I go any further - I think it is important to note that, while most reference ranges for blood tests are similar, they do vary from lab to lab and doctor to doctor. We're only looking for evidence of "problems" within these reference ranges and there should be an understood standard deviation when analyzing such results. I am looking for alarmingly high/low results that could indicate problems. So, as I go thru each of these different blood test results, I intend to give everyone a "breakdown" of information so that we can understand what is really taking place in my body.

    The tested client - is myself

    The previous AAS cycle - Consisted of:

    Test-P @ 400/400/400/400/700/700/400
    M-Drol @ 20/20/20
    Trenazone @ 0/0/150/150/150/150/100
    H-Drol @ 0/0/0/0/50/50/50
    UDCA @ 0/0/0/0/250/250/250/250

    As you can see, this is a fairly harsh cycle with tons of potential "problems" that could have occurred throughout the cycle and during PCT. Nonetheless, I'm very satisfied with the results and as of right now the current blood tests, which were drawn 5 days after my last injection, show promising results for a clean, healthy recovery in PCT.

    The first set of blood tests were drawn on Friday 10/21/11 @ 11:33 AM - just 5 days after my last injection of Test Prop and only 2 full days after I stopped taking Trenazone and H-Drol. Here are the results:

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    As you can see with these results, my blood counts are in no way alarming. Considering this is only 2 days after discontinuing all AAS, I cannot complain at all! I had a nurse look over these numbers for me just to make sure and she even said they are not anything to worry about and that these values are within an acceptable range. For instance, my monocytes are a little high but nothing high enough to indicate a serious infection or illness. At 15, it could have been something as minor as a sinus infection. She said that typical illnesses like strept and flu will raise these values to 25+ on a ref range from 4-13..

    And here is the second half of my blood reports which indicate my liver and HPTA function:

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    And looking at these we can tell that for the most part, my liver function is completely normal. This is after being beaten down by M-Drol, H-Drol and Trenazone (even tho Trenazone isn't known for liver damage). So, what can we conclude? I suppose that 250mg/ED of UDCA is sufficient on-cycle to protect the liver. Even more encouraging is that I decided to take this liver support AFTER I finished the M-Drol/SD! Also, I'd like to add that my source for this UDCA happens to be a source that is available to everyone on this board that lives in the U.S. So no more concerns for liver function if you ask me! I wouldn't abuse oral steroids - methylated ones - but I can't imagine running less than 6 weeks of any methylated compound should be an issue with udca AND milk thistle.

    Addressing the issue of HPTA:

    From the second posted blood results you can see that I was totally shutdown. Now when I say "shutdown", I'm not referring to serum T levels. Obviously, the Test Prop had not completely cleared my system yet as my T levels still read a decent number (albeit low). I'm referring to the LH and FSH activity. However, this is the most opportune time to start PCT IMO. We don't want serum T levels to crash down to < 100 before trying to kick start the pituitary system. No, we want the exogenous T levels to be "on it's way out the door" when we start up our HPTA function again. This ensures that we never go thru a period, however brief it may be, of no or extremely low T levels. This avoids that "crashing" feeling that many of us are familiar with when coming of AAS cycles.

    The LH and FSH

    Understanding how the LH and FSH work are essential to manipulating them into producing high T levels. Whenever T levels are approaching normality, the LH and FSH activity are decreasing. Thus, you have a indirectly proportional or (inversely proportional) relationship between LH/FSH and total T levels. So whenever your body is consuming your testosterone levels, the LH and FSH will "pulsate" to produce a little more. This is an ongoing process that occurs in order to keep your T levels constant and steady. Now when exogenous testosterone comes into play, our pituitary notices a ridiculously high T level and thus avoids stimulating the LH and FSH to activate the testes. This is why we experience testicular atrophy. Our testicles are never being turned on to produce more test and sperm. It simply does not feel the need to. This is also why many AAS users consider hCG (a GnRH) while on cycle to keep the LH working alittle. This helps with recovery in PCT.

    Now, we need to revisit this idea of GnRH stimulating the LH and FSH to "work". For some time now, hCG has been the main player here and it is well understood how to administer hCG on cycle, and if one chooses, during the beginning of PCT as well. hCG works well, but is particularly known for stimulating only the LH side of the pituitary system. After all, hCG is an LH analog so this would make sense.

    Triptorelin on the other hand is a synthetic gonadotropin, unlike the naturally found hCG. And what do we know about "synthetic" stuff? As usual, Triptorelin is stronger and more effective per dose. Even moreso, it is called a GnRH agonist which means it "brings out" or elicits the biological response of the LH and FSH in the pituitary. Now, Triptorelin is so strong that if continued to be taken it eventually desensitizes the pituitary and may cause chemical castration!

    So obviously, the need to get the dosing just right is paramount for the bodybuilder! It is said that 100mcg is the adequate amount of Triptorelin to take in at the beginning of PCT. Fortunately for us, we'll know tomorrow if this dosing scheme of Trip has done anything in the way of kickstarting my HPTA back into production. The idea here is not to have a single shot PCT, but rather a single-shot GUARANTEE that my pituitary (which as seen above is so awfully shutdown) experiences a rather quick and smooth comeback. Hence, the reason I am also going to start administering a low dose Clomid and Exemestane therapy TONIGHT (Day 7 of PCT). The intention here is to kickstart and give steady rise to total T levels over the next 3-4 weeks WHILE using a low dose AAS (Pheraplex in my case). I'm not at all convinced that you can't have alittle AAS in your PCT diet while still making a solid recovery.

    Well that's enough talk for the day. Enjoy the results. I shall be back tomorrow night to post the final blood results for the Triptorelin effectiveness.

    Day 10 of PCT

    Trip Results:

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    As you can see the Trip didn't do much for my test after 7 days out. Test was still low yet you do see some LH and FSH activity. Perhaps the Trip got them started but never continued to follow thru..who knows. Bottom line, don't bother! You can easily blast with 3-5k iu's of hCG and get the same or better effect if you need to kickstart your HPTA. Honestly, with that in mind, the absolute best option is to run hCG @ 500iu's weekly to prevent total LH and FSH shutdown. That way when you start your SERM and t-booster in PCT you can have a smooth recovery.

    Conclusion:

    Trip might be effective in first 3 days of PCT w/ 100mcg/shot however it is conclusive that Trip would be no better than hCG or just a standard Clomid/Nolva/Torem + TBooster PCT. It is possible that the Triptorelin that I got was underdosed. This wouldn't be the first time someone got bunk stuff @ a research chem site. Either way, I did notice an immediate effect on my testicles the first 2 days after taking the shot which leads me to believe that it does do something in way of waking up LH and FSH.

    As for the elevated AST ALT levels - two reasons...one, I had muscle damage from the previous day (muscle damage makes these levels read high), and two, I had 2-3 heavy beers the night before which were the first I had taken in several weeks. Anyways, the rest of my liver function looks golden so I know that the two bottom numbers probably indicate something other than liver disease/damage/stress.

    Better alternatives (IMO)

    Use hCG on cycle and have a SERM like Torem or Clomid in PCT with a T-Booster (DAA) and an AI (Like Aromasin). Run all of it 4-6 weeeks and be done with it.

    Personally, starting in week 3, I'm going to run Phera @ 10mg/day as planned for 3 weeks and extend PCT an additional week. After PCT is finished I'll be getting bloodwork done to make sure everything looks good.

    Thanks guys!

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    Innnnnn
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    Well, my lab has let me down this time. They usually have a 24hr turnaround time to getting my blood results to me. Apparently this weekend they had a slacker on shift so I suppose it will be tomorrow before I receive anything from them.

    As it stands, I am taking 25mg Clomid EOD for the 2nd week only. Afterwards I will move to 25mg ED for weeks 3 & 4 of PCT. I will also be introducing an AI and Pheraplex dosed at 10mg ED for weeks 2-4 of PCT. Afterwards I will have blood work done to confirm a smooth recovery. Later today or tomorrow I will build a spreadsheet showing the dosing scheme of my PCT as it is quite complicated.
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    How are you feeling? Is ur trip from EP?
    ~ IRON LIVERô________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    How are you feeling? Is ur trip from EP?
    I feel absolutely fine. I've never had such a nice recovery in the first week of PCT. Pumps and muscle hardness arent around anymore but the boys are functioning pretty good and are back to normal size. Libido is alittle down but everything seems to work fine tho. Training will be hard and heavy this week and the week after I'll reiterate alot of iso movements to get some shape into my arms, chest and calves. The other day I DB Inclined Pressed 90's for 7 reps on my last set...thats a full 15lbs better than I recall the last time I did DB incline. Anyways once I get my estro down and in check I'm sure my hardness and libido will be optimal. Hopefully Phera just jelps to maintain the strength and hardness. I dobt particularly want more size hence the 10mg during PCT.

    And to answer the question without stepping over forum boundaries...yes it is as well as the Clomid and Exemestane. I've got gobs of SERMS from there.
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    Hmmmmm yes, how r the results coming? Any email from bloods
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    Yeah they r at the top with the other bloods. The new protocol is Clomid @ 50mg x 4 weeks along with DAA and Formestane when it comes in next week. I'll continue Dexaprine EOW since it does restrict my eating alittle. Basically, I'm moving towards a build week/burn week. The Ipamorelin is really nice. Took my first dose of it last night and got a nice sense of well being from it. Also experienced a nice relaxed feel while I was reclined and watching TV with my fiance. I'll keep using Ipa and start my CJC when I reconstitute it tonight. Hopefully that will be enough to sustain most of my gains. I'm gonna try to put on 5lbs natty between now and December..
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    Nice info here....reps
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Nice info here....reps
    Yeah, this thread needs more circulation IMO. I have conclusive evidence for Triptorelin AND UDCA. We need to kill this idea of Triptorelin before companies rip too many people off in the future. I mean, it does do something, but as stated above it does nothing more extraordinary compared to hCG or just a SERM + TBooster. My next cycle I will take hCG on cycle along with Toco-8 and again get my HPTA tested a few days after the test clears. I'm trying to document the true effectiveness of certain supplements and chemicals for the bodybuilding community. I'm tired of of trusting in bro-science. I want evidence. I want science, lol.

    BTW thanks for the reps
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    Maybe ur lh is low because your still on steroids. I knOw some ppl tale a small dose of orals pct but Mainly dbol. Phera at 10 will shut you down ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    Maybe ur lh is low because your still on steroids. I knOw some ppl tale a small dose of orals pct but Mainly dbol. Phera at 10 will shut you down ....
    I'm not taking Phera. I had to wait to get second test results before deciding to take Phera or not. Now I'm not taking it at all. I will most likely just stick with Clomid, DAA, Formestane, and Dexaprine over the next 3 weeks.
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    Hmmmmm So the went from nothing to 1.6 in roughly a wk. that's goOd if you think about it 1.8 being minimum. In just one week that's worth 40$
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    Your fsh is actually above minimum. That's very good for only first week pct. I'll use u hcg last 6-8 wks then trip clOmid nova daa
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    Here is my full PCT plan, some of which has already played out. I'm starting week 3 of it and currently holding the mass and leanness that I had at end of cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Yeah, this thread needs more circulation IMO. I have conclusive evidence for Triptorelin AND UDCA. We need to kill this idea of Triptorelin before companies rip too many people off in the future. I'm tired of of trusting in bro-science. I want evidence. I want science, lol.
    This is a good thread and I applaud all you've put together. I have to agree with you on wanting evidence. I'd certainly like to see at least 2 more people testing Triptorelin from other companies before we start trying to kill the idea of it's use. Right now it's a little premature to make a definitive statement about Triptorelin. Your experience is quite different from others I have read. At the same time this is a very unique thread with the blood work listed and makes it extremely valuable. This thread sets a foundation to test from and it should be spread around as you've stated. Very nice work! I hope the remainder of your pct goes well. Thanks for all your efforts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazcat View Post
    This is a good thread and I applaud all you've put together. I have to agree with you on wanting evidence. I'd certainly like to see at least 2 more people testing Triptorelin from other companies before we start trying to kill the idea of it's use. Right now it's a little premature to make a definitive statement about Triptorelin. Your experience is quite different from others I have read. At the same time this is a very unique thread with the blood work listed and makes it extremely valuable. This thread sets a foundation to test from and it should be spread around as you've stated. Very nice work! I hope the remainder of your pct goes well. Thanks for all your efforts.
    My next cycle I will be trying a much higher grade Trip at beginning of PCT again and will get tests done 4 days after the injection. My thoughts are that this stuff would be excellent in the first 3 days to kickstart but then would need a quick follow up of Clomid + DAA.
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    I'm on currently only sure of EP carrying trip. I'm sure it's was good quality. It's not a miracle drug and IMO I thing it did nice job on you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    I'm on currently only sure of EP carrying trip. I'm sure it's was good quality. It's not a miracle drug and IMO I thing it did nice job on you
    There is one other source I know of that is American quality...

    And you are right. My timing was wrong. I should have followed with Clomid therapy at day 4 instead of day 7. Nonetheless, I am maintaining the vast majority of my strength gains at this point. Clomid and DAA are doing the trick and I will gladly say that by week 5 of PCT I'll still have kept most of the gains as far as strength and BF % go..
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    From what I Read clomped should be done next day after trip. I thought it was weird u waited that long.... See trip is pretty impressive!
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    Well I wanted to give a fair evaluation on Trip effectiveness in order to see how well it works alone. Anyways, I'd use Trip on short 4-6 week cycles as a GnRH blast in PCT to ensure a quick comeback where HCG is not practical.Otherwise for longer cycles than that I'd just run HCG instead since it is more cost effective in the long run. I could have enough hcg for 10 weeks at 500iu plus one 5000iu blast in PCT for around $30-40.
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    Hmmm interesting input
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    Ok guys, next cycle is coming up which was posted earlier in the thread. I'll be starting a new thread soon regarding next run.

    Also wanted to add that while this evidence proves that Triptorelin does something, it isnt completely conclusive because of one fact that I regrettably learned later: that you are supposed to administer Trip immediately after reconstitution. I did not do that at all. It's likely that my Trip lost efficacy since it was not administered until about 6-7 weeks after reconstitution. So, for what its worth - Trip might be a possible stand alone PCT regime. However, I will forever only consider it as a solid kickstart option.
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