The Very BEST PCT for 2011 -- Right Here

senjuriko

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I'll say it right now -- MAKE THIS A STICKY!!!

To anyone who doesn't know it, here's the deal. Read it and weep...

MOST PCT PROCEDURES ARE BULL!!!

How can I say that? Well, because PCT is nothing but guesswork -- granted, there's some science and some very clever hypothesis involved, but it is not a medical treatment simply for the fact that it is not recognized as a medical condition. So what some of the pioneers of steroid use did was make some educated guesses as to what to use. But almost everything was considered a "good idea" 10 years ago, has been discredited.

The first "prevenative drug was Nolvadex. This was the brainchild of Dan Duchaine. He was brilliant in deducing that gynecomastia was a form of a breast tumor and nolva was an ANTI BREAST TUMOR drug. But nolva comes with a host of side effects, including, lessened gains, lowered sex drive, bone loss,increased LDL and potential heart disease. And for what? Reducing the risk of gynecomastia which can be prevented in the first place. Evn Dan admitted it was a ty drug. So how did it become so por for PCT? Because the internet is filled with idiots who are promoted as drug gurus. There isn't one shred of evidence that shows nolva to help restore hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . Not ONE. But old habits die fast.

Clomid? Don't get me started. It's an estrogen It does what estrogens do. If you recover using Clomid it's usually IN SPITE of it, not because of it. In some cases it acts as an estrogen antagonist -- if your estrogen is high -- and you're lucky enough to respond in that way. Feeling lucky? You don't have to. There's a better way.

The smartest PCT is a 6 step program.

Step One: While "on" use HCGenerate to lessen suppression.

Step Two: Use hcg or HMG to kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . This will not last however. The body must take over on its own, but this will help. DO NOT over use hcg. It will only lose effectiveness if you do too much.


Step Three: Use Proviron and/or Unleashed to lower sex hormone binding globulin and increase free testosterone -- making it as high as possible, even when suppressed. At some point you have to come off the Proviron but the Unleashed , which works similarly, can be used indefinitely.

Step Four: Use Aromasin to remove excess estrogen that may build up when androgen levels are lower and to allow the body to create more natural testosterone.

Use POST CYCLE to detox Liver, balance e and maintain erectile function -- VERY IMPORTANT when recovering. It keep the hormonal system working and that keeps the body making testosterone.

Step Five: Use Forma- Stanzol to keep Estro on check. If you're ultra sensitive to estrogen sides, add a tiny bit of Arimidex. That's all you need.

Step Six: Follow with BRIDGE to keep that "on" feeling. gear is also excellent to replicate the extra nitrogen that steroids provide. The 2 work great together.

There you have it. It's a little more complicated than just popping a pill of one thing or the other, but it's the only TRUE PCT there is. And the bottom line is ...it works. EVERYTIME. GUARANTEED.

Do it smart. Do it safe
 
T50

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This reads more like an advertisement than an informational post. No thanks.
 
davidq

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Ya I saw this in an elite fitness forum and didn't like it, its just someone promoting their supplements.
 
senjuriko

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Ya I saw this in an elite fitness forum and didn't like it, its just someone promoting their supplements.
Well

its not is it. HCGgenrate has proven studies done on its ingredients

The first Ingredient in Hcgenerate
Fadogia Agrestis.................1000

studies have show that it does in fact raise lh levels and testosterone levels.

The second Ingredient
Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000

This is a cool one because it has been shown to
1. Promote healthy glucose levels and healthy sugar metabolism By assisting the pancreas in production of insulin.

Fenugreek supports healthy blood sugar levels
Fenugreek enters modern medicine

A few more interesting facts about Fenugreek is that it has shown to mimic testosterone by binding to the testosterone receptor sites and creating "testosterone like activity"

Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever.

So this works very well during pct when the bodies natural testosterone is low. Helping to prevent the lost of muscle that one gets when coming off of cycle.


The 3rd ingredient
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....500

3,4 divan has shown in multiple studies to have the highest binding affinity for SHBG of all lignans investigated thus far,Thus is lowers shbg and increases free test, and we threw in a huge dose of it.
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran
3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran; A Potent Testosterone Booster
Interaction of lignans with human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

Lignans bind to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). The lignan with the highest binding affinity is (+/ )-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. In a double Stobbe condensation--without use of protecting groups--a wide variety of lignans with different substitution pattern in the aromatic and aliphatic part of the molecule was synthesized. These lignans were tested in a SHBG-binding assay which allowed to deduce the following relationship between structure and activity: 1) (+/-)-diastereoisomers are more active than meso compounds 2.) the 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy (guajacyl) substitution pattern in the aromatic part is most effective 3.) the activity increases with the decline in polarity of the aliphatic part of the molecule.


Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

Polar extracts of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica L.) roots contain the ligans (+)-neoolivil, (-) secoisolariciresinol, dehydrodiconiferyl alcohol, isolariciresinol, pinoresinol, and 3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran. These compounds were either isolated from Urtica roots, or obtained semisynthetically. Their affinity to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was tested in an in vitro assay. In addition, the main intestinal transformation products of plant lignans in humans, enterodiol and enterolactone, together with enterofuran were checked for their activity. All lignans except (-) pinoresinol developed a binding affinity to SHBG in the in vitro assay. The affinity of (-)-3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).


3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran also promote the secondary messenger nitric oxide (NO) by increasing its main enzyme eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase). As NO is postulated to be one of the key triggers for muscle cell proliferation and growth while also promoting muscular pumps in the gym, this aspect of3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran leads to fuller muscles that you can see and feel, thus providing significant mental motivation.


4th Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg

Debated for years now. Some swear by it and some say its junk. A few studies have show that it raises test levels and some of disproved this as well. Studies do however show that it Heightens sexual arousal. And I believe this is more do to its Ability to Up regulate androgen/sex hormone receptors in the brain. So in other words it makes them respond better.

ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Effect of Tribulus terrestris on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase activity and androgen receptors in rat brain

5th added Ingredient
Vitamin E.......................200

Many studies have shown the Zinc suplamentation can have an positive effect on Igf.

Furthermore we have all seen studies showing V-e's protective effect on Leydig cell steroidogenesis

6th Add on is
LJ100
LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract
Study Indicates LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract Safely Promotes Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise :: News :: Natural and Nutritional Products Industry Center

About LJ 100®

LJ100® is a standardized, freeze-dried Eurycoma longifolia extract, containing 40% glycosaponins and 22% eurypeptides, a bioactive glycoprotein that is now clinically proven for its androgenic properties. LJ100® has undergone a patented BAT extraction process to capture 22% biologically active eurypeptides, proven in research to be responsible for increasing libido, improving sports performance, increasing fertility, and activating the enzymes that metabolize the various androgens.

Created by the original researchers at the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM), University of Malaya, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, LJ100® (22% bioactive eurypeptides) has shown - in human clinical trials - an ability to increase DHEA and free testosterone, decrease Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), improve HDL, modulate cortisol, and increase igf-1 level.


So its pretty apparent how Hcgenerate counteracts all Negative sides associated with the use of nolva and or clomid, and it the perfect complement for this pct using these drugs. For anyone thinking about using or who has used clomid/nolva for pct I highly recommend you take what I have said into account and add hcgenerate to the mix.

Why settle for the norm or just ok when you can go all the way and get the best of both worlds. IMO hcgenerate is the new "must have" , and again im not a salesman
 
duke66

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Nope I call bull****! Incidentally I've tried all those ingredients in the past and they don't do jack for me. Give me tried and true nolva/clomid.
 
schwellington

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your saying to use proviron IN PCT- proviron IS A STEROID


****ing idiot
 
TheMeatus101

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Haha, damn bro.
 

gymrat827

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clomid and nolva both work. However most of the other info you have is true/correct.
 
catty66

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Great ad! You got almost the whole line of of products in there.
 
Colochine

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Maybe this should be a sticky... In the NeedToBuildMuscle & MrSupps supplement company section... All I see here is an advertisement.
 
davidq

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I called bull**** from the start but didnt want to be rude.why not explaine the Unleached instead of sme bull**** HCGenerate that a person should take on and proviron for PCT wthell.This is an old thread from elite fitness,
 
senjuriko

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your saying to use proviron IN PCT- proviron IS A STEROID

****ing idiot
Your callin me a ****ing idiot saying that. Mate do what you feel is best but don't comment with a response like that unless you've got a valid reason to back up what I'm saying is ****

Yea it will not help you recover, but being a non suppressive androgen should help you feel better when you come off, that is the only real reason for adding it, and I think it is a worthwhile addition at 25-50mg per day. If anything for loss of sex drive and to boost your ball sack back to recovery.

Taken from Main Steroid.com
Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH (10)! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. This points to a novel use for this compound during Post-Cycyle-Therapy for a non-suppressive "bridge" between cycles. In fact, in yet another study, administration of Proviron (basically the same dose as in the last study) produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL (Prolactin Levels& you want those to remain low). (8).
So instead of saying in a ****ing idiot tell me why you wouldn't use it for pct num nuts
 
Rodja

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Jesus......not this again. I would go into why most of this is a bad idea, but NTBM got their panties in a bunch the last time I did that.
 

Husker89

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I'll say it right now -- MAKE THIS A STICKY!!!

To anyone who doesn't know it, here's the deal. Read it and weep...

MOST PCT PROCEDURES ARE BULL!!!


How can I say that? Well, because PCT is nothing but guesswork -- granted, there's some science and some very clever hypothesis involved, but it is not a medical treatment simply for the fact that it is not recognized as a medical condition. So what some of the pioneers of steroid use did was make some educated guesses as to what to use. But almost everything was considered a "good idea" 10 years ago, has been discredited.

The first "prevenative drug was Nolvadex. This was the brainchild of Dan Duchaine. He was brilliant in deducing that gynecomastia was a form of a breast tumor and nolva was an ANTI BREAST TUMOR drug. But nolva comes with a host of side effects, including, lessened gains, lowered sex drive, bone loss,increased LDL and potential heart disease. And for what? Reducing the risk of gynecomastia which can be prevented in the first place. Evn Dan admitted it was a ty drug. So how did it become so por for PCT? Because the internet is filled with idiots who are promoted as drug gurus. There isn't one shred of evidence that shows nolva to help restore hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . Not ONE. But old habits die fast.

Clomid? Don't get me started. It's an estrogen It does what estrogens do. If you recover using Clomid it's usually IN SPITE of it, not because of it. In some cases it acts as an estrogen antagonist -- if your estrogen is high -- and you're lucky enough to respond in that way. Feeling lucky? You don't have to. There's a better way.

The smartest PCT is a 6 step program.

Step One: While "on" use HCGenerate to lessen suppression.

Step Two: Use hcg or HMG to kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . This will not last however. The body must take over on its own, but this will help. DO NOT over use hcg. It will only lose effectiveness if you do too much.


Step Three: Use Proviron and/or Unleashed to lower sex hormone binding globulin and increase free testosterone -- making it as high as possible, even when suppressed. At some point you have to come off the Proviron but the Unleashed , which works similarly, can be used indefinitely.

Step Four: Use Aromasin to remove excess estrogen that may build up when androgen levels are lower and to allow the body to create more natural testosterone.

Use POST CYCLE to detox Liver, balance e and maintain erectile function -- VERY IMPORTANT when recovering. It keep the hormonal system working and that keeps the body making testosterone.

Step Five: Use Forma- Stanzol to keep Estro on check. If you're ultra sensitive to estrogen sides, add a tiny bit of Arimidex. That's all you need.

Step Six: Follow with BRIDGE to keep that "on" feeling. gear is also excellent to replicate the extra nitrogen that steroids provide. The 2 work great together.

There you have it. It's a little more complicated than just popping a pill of one thing or the other, but it's the only TRUE PCT there is. And the bottom line is ...it works. EVERYTIME. GUARANTEED.

Do it smart. Do it safe
Ya clomid is an estrogen, but it is a very weak one so it binds instead of the bodies natural stronger estrogens. This lowers estrogen and tells the male body to create more estrogen. Because males do not have ovaries and they get estrogen through aromatase enzyme, the body produces more test which in turns helps the body recover. In theory increasing lh, Fsh, and ultimately test. And ive used hcgenerate and its not bad but clomid and nolva with some adex or letro at the end is the best, or at least very good. And if you run an ai, aka aromatase inhibitor, then the test made to increase estrogen because of the clomid cant aromatise so you dont get more estrogen just more test. Its hard to trust you when you only mention one brand and 3 different supps you gotta admit man. I would trust like 100 people on AM who take nolva/clomid over your retarded a$$
 
bashman

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That's not right, you missed out Need 2 Slin, PhytoSerms-347, NTBM-DAA, N2 GUARD, Need 2 Sleep, Advanced Probiotic and Acnetame. Don't forget the NTBM T-Shirt, I swear everytime I put it on I could feel my T levels rising and estrogen lowering.

Seriously guys Do it smart. Do it safe

 
StangBanger

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NTBM shooting itself in the foot bigtime here....

Hi, I own XYZ widgets... do you use other widgets? NONE of them work! They are all fake and no proven science! Use my XYZ widgets the only ones in the world that work! And with them use our XYZ oil, again the only oil in the world that works! And when you buy them it will be in a XYZ bag, the only bags in the world that hold things! And dont forget your reciept, its the only receipt that has numbers on it in the world!

This is not an advertisement, this is proven science!

Signed,

Head of doushbagginess
 
TheDarkHalf

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I will say that I honestly have no idea who this guy is. He's not a rep on any of our forums and isn't affiliated with us in any way. I know it obviously seems otherwise....believe it or not....just wanted to throw that out there.
 
MidwestBeast

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NTBM shooting itself in the foot bigtime here....

Hi, I own XYZ widgets... do you use other widgets? NONE of them work! They are all fake and no proven science! Use my XYZ widgets the only ones in the world that work! And with them use our XYZ oil, again the only oil in the world that works! And when you buy them it will be in a XYZ bag, the only bags in the world that hold things! And dont forget your reciept, its the only receipt that has numbers on it in the world!

This is not an advertisement, this is proven science!

Signed,

Head of doushbagginess
I will say that I honestly have no idea who this guy is. He's not a rep on any of our forums and isn't affiliated with us in any way. I know it obviously seems otherwise....believe it or not....just wanted to throw that out there.
As DarkHalf said, we legitimately don't know who this guy is.

If you've followed any of our reps around on AM, you would clearly see that we recommend SERMs on a very regular basis, even for some "milder" cycles. I obviously stand behind HCGenerate and other products of ours that work great, but that doesn't mean I'd go into PCT without a SERM.
 
bashman

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TBH, I thought it may be a market competitor. I know some NTBM reps do push their products a little overboard sometimes but not as blatant as this. His first posts seem very elaborately done.
 
TheDarkHalf

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TBH, I thought it may be a market competitor. I know some NTBM reps do push their products a little overboard sometimes but not as blatant as this. His first posts seem very elaborately done.
Sabotage!!!!

 
Steelwolf

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As DarkHalf said, we legitimately don't know who this guy is.

If you've followed any of our reps around on AM, you would clearly see that we recommend SERMs on a very regular basis, even for some "milder" cycles. I obviously stand behind HCGenerate and other products of ours that work great, but that doesn't mean I'd go into PCT without a SERM.
Exactly I have no idea who this guy is as well. Also seconding what Beast says. HCGenerate is a great a great product, but it is not all we would recommend for a PCT. Many feel a SERM is very important with any form of cycle.
 
CoorsLight126

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thats like a $300 PCT routine, hahaha, I'll just stay on gear!!
 
MidwestBeast

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EasyEJL

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Step Four: Use Aromasin to remove excess estrogen that may build up when androgen levels are lower and to allow the body to create more natural testosterone.
I think this is my favorite part, because in the absence of having been using a SERM on cycle, and in the absence of running testosterone or an aromatizing compound for the cycle, there isn't any estrogen buildup. As your body creates the estrogen from the androgens you have nothing to worry about estrogen buildup particularly when "androgen levels are low".
 
fightbackhxc

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I think this is my favorite part, because in the absence of having been using a SERM on cycle, and in the absence of running testosterone or an aromatizing compound for the cycle, there isn't any estrogen buildup. As your body creates the estrogen from the androgens you have nothing to worry about estrogen buildup particularly when "androgen levels are low".
:) hahaha
 
bashman

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Got to give him some credit for his slogan.....Do it smart. Do it safe

Sounds like something you would hear in the kids sex education video
 
Milas

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Guys, he's not a NTBM rep that any of us know of (and I checked with HQ), but he's probably learning the ropes and was very excited to see this posted somewhere else Elite. Rather than digging into the guy, we should help educate him, at least he's THINKING about PCT which is more than a lot of folks just getting into PH/DS do. It certainly came off as a paid advertisement, but I think he's genuinely a fan, not a NTBM drone.

I for one appreciate folks who like to share, and he was not motivated by any self-interest or profit that I know of. There are some good points identified in there, and may be useful. As with anything, you should scrutinize and use your head, but to demonize a new member because he posted something he saw is not what I'd expect from AM. Granted he may have positioned it differently, but hey, we were all there at some point!

Now if Triptorelin, Ostarine, Follistatin, GHRP/GHRH, and IGF were mentioned in there, well then it'd be game on! ;)
 

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When I was in college, the proper PCT was Ramen noodles and Natural Light.
 

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I would love to see some posts of Follistatin... but nobody has the sack to run it. Maybe Mr. Perfect PCT will come up with a proper PCT for it.
 
Milas

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When I was in college, the proper PCT was Ramen noodles and Natural Light.
LOL, when I was in college Creatine was cutting edge! I was "hardcore" when I used it, and my friends all looked at me differently from then on...
 
Milas

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I would love to see some posts of Follistatin... but nobody has the sack to run it. Maybe Mr. Perfect PCT will come up with a proper PCT for it.
Folli is quite new and expensive, I've seen a few people who have posted they used it, one got sick and another had good results. I'm still on the fence about it. I actually think it would work better on cycle when gains start tapering off to inhibit myostatin (which has been shown to increase during AAS cycles).
 

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Creatine makes me look 10 years younger - my face loses its definition and my body resembles the Stay Puft marshmallow man. I retained more water on creatine than 1ad/4ad cycle. The only natural supplement that helped with water retention was dandelion root, but then the strength effects of creatine went away of course. Wow Milas, we are off topic... This thread has pretty much died.
 
Milas

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Creatine makes me look 10 years younger - my face loses its definition and my body resembles the Stay Puft marshmallow man. I retained more water on creatine than 1ad/4ad cycle. The only natural supplement that helped with water retention was dandelion root, but then the strength effects of creatine went away of course. Wow Milas, we are off topic... This thread has pretty much died.
LOL, I think so! When you start talking about creatine and dandelions in PCT!!!
 
Steelwolf

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LOL, when I was in college Creatine was cutting edge! I was "hardcore" when I used it, and my friends all looked at me differently from then on...
I remember in HS my mom was all freaked out about me using it lol
 

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thats weird that there are proven studies on fadogia when no one even knows the main constituent in fadogia that supposedly has T increasing effects.

so they extracted, what exactly?

as for testofen, i don't believe increasing insulin sensitivity can quite pass for ''acting like testosterone''.

wtf does this even mean?

''Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever. ''

OK let me get this straight : testofen acts as a ''synthetic androgen'' which occupies ARs so that our bodies produce more test? you sure you weren't blazed when you wrote that? what the hell is testofen binding to?


where the hell are these proven studies that HCGENERATE LESSENS SUPPRESSION? who's a$$ was that pulled from?

i just laughed again when i read the ingredient profile and price on the NTBM website. thanks guys.

hcgenerate doesnt even have bulbine in it anymore from what i can tell. is the vitamin E even full spectrum with tocotrienols?
 
Milas

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thats weird that there are proven studies on fadogia when no one even knows the main constituent in fadogia that supposedly has T increasing effects.

so they extracted, what exactly?

as for testofen, i don't believe increasing insulin sensitivity can quite pass for ''acting like testosterone''.

wtf does this even mean?

''Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever. ''

OK let me get this straight : testofen acts as a ''synthetic androgen'' which occupies ARs so that our bodies produce more test? you sure you weren't blazed when you wrote that? what the hell is testofen binding to?


where the hell are these proven studies that HCGENERATE LESSENS SUPPRESSION? who's a$$ was that pulled from?

i just laughed again when i read the ingredient profile and price on the NTBM website. thanks guys.

hcgenerate doesnt even have bulbine in it anymore from what i can tell. is the vitamin E even full spectrum with tocotrienols?
For Testofen, I think you're confusing that extract with 4-hydroxyisoleucine extracted from the seeds for increased glycogen resynthesis (this is actually quite different than "insulin sensitivity"). Testofen is a phyto-testosterone, meaning it binds to androgen receptors (AR) and simulates the effects of testosterone (see study below). Also, Testofen is not the same as bulk Fenugreek, and it will not make you lactate either!

The effects of a commercially available botanical ... [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2010] - PubMed result
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20979623

BACKGROUND:

Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) is a leguminous, annual plant originating in India and North Africa. In recent years Fenugreek has been touted as an ergogenic aid. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of Fenugreek supplementation on strength and body composition.
METHODS:

49 Resistance trained men were matched according to body weight and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner capsules containing 500 mg of a placebo (N = 23, 20 ± 1.9 years, 178 ± 6.3 cm, 85 ± 12.7 kg, 17 ± 5.6 %BF) or Fenugreek (N = 26, 21 ± 2.8 years, 178 ± 6 cm, 90 ± 18.2 kg, 19.3 ± 8.4 %BF). Subjects participated in a supervised 4-day per week periodized resistance-training program split into two upper and two lower extremity workouts per week for a total of 8-weeks. At 0, 4, and 8-weeks, subjects underwent hydrodensiometery body composition, 1-RM strength, muscle endurance, and anaerobic capacity testing. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA and are presented as mean ± SD changes from baseline after 60-days.
RESULTS:

No significant differences (p > 0.05) between groups were noted for training volume. Significant group × time interaction effects were observed among groups in changes in body fat (FEN: -2.3 ± 1.4%BF; PL: -0.39 ± 1.6 %BF, p < 0.001), leg press 1-RM (FEN: 84.6 ± 36.2 kg; PL: 48 ± 29.5 kg, p < 0.001), and bench press 1-RM (FEN: 9.1 ± 6.9 kg; PL: 4.3 ± 5.6 kg, p = 0.01). No significant interactions was observed among groups for Wingate power analysis (p = 0.95) or muscular endurance on bench press (p = 0.87) or leg press (p = 0.61). In addition, there were no changes among groups in any clinical safety data including lipid panel, liver function, kidney function, and/or CBC panel (p > 0.05).
CONCLUSION:

It is concluded that 500 mg of this proprietary Fenugreek extraction had a significant impact on both upper- and lower-body strength and body composition in comparison to placebo in a double blind controlled trial. These changes were obtained with no clinical side effects.

Fadogia:
http://www.needtobuildmuscle.net/blog/2011/07/28/fadogia-agrestis-boosts-testosterone-600-the-original-study/
Fadogia agrestis boosts testosterone 600% – the original study!
If you’re new to the bodybuilding world or the supplement scene, you’re probably just hearing about Fadogia agrestis – one of the most effective testosterone-boosting herbs to ever hit the market. But a lot of you are probably wondering where this information came from? Is there any science behind it, or is is it all hype? A lot of testosterone-boosters in the past have turned out to just be libido boosters (Tribulus, for example). But Fadogia is totally different – it works by increasing intratesticular cholesterol levels, which are used by your body to synthesize more testosterone.

We learned this information several years ago, when a group of scientists in Africa decided to take a look at the herb, because indigenous people had been using it for the past several centuries for fertility purposes. The scientists knew that it appeared to work, but they just didn’t know why. It could have been that the herb increased spermatogenesis (sperm production) and libido (sex drive) without having an effect on testosterone (again, Tribulus is a great example of this). And believe it or not, some test-boosting herbs like Holy Basil, can absolutely wreck your natural endocrine system. One study showed that while the Indian herb Holy Basil will elevate testosterone, it lowers luteinizing hormone (a hormone that is secreted pulses to signal the release of testosterone), as well as Follicle Stimulating Hormone (which is necessary for sperm production).In fact, sperm count was decreased by 45% with this stuff, while luteinizing hormone actually becomes undetectable! We don’t think this is a good trade-off, especially when there’s better options.

And although this might seem like an odd observation, it’s doubtful that we’re ever going to see a bunch of really great testosterone AND libido/fertility boosting herbs from a place like India (*or China for that matter). It’s far more likely that we’re going to continue seeing them from places like Africa. Why? Because China and India are very heavily populated; representing the two most populous countries in the world. Traditionally, they would not have needed to rely on herbs to increase their numbers. Africa, on the other hand, is much more sparsely populated, and often the amount of children a tribe could produce would be the deciding factor in which tribes survive the next famine (or war, unfortunately). Really effective herbs will always come from traditional and folk medicine in areas of the world where there is a need for their specific function.

Ok, so back to the research on Fadogia agrestis: A group of African scientists took a look at three different doses of Fadogia agrestis in a rodent-based study, and here’s what they found:

•At a dose of 18mgs/kg/day the rodents ended up with 200% the testosterone levels of the control group (doubling their previous level)
•At a dose of 50mgs/kg/day the rodents ended up with 300% the testosterone levels of the control group
•And at the highest tested dose, the rodents ended up with a testosterone level that was 600% that of the control group
And: http://www.needtobuildmuscle.net/blog/2011/07/11/fadogia-agrestis/
Lately there’s been a lot of renewed interest in the testosterone-boosting herb, Fadogia agrestis as well as some naysayers writing halfwit Articles thinking they have some how “exposed my product hcgenerate” lmao . Although it’s been on the market since 2005, the stuff has been growing in popularity since then, and never been more in-demand. And why not? The original University of Ilorin in vivo study on Fadogia showed an incredible 600% testosterone increase over control values.

One of the very first people to have purchased and used this herb as a bodybuilding supplement (which also contained zinc and vitamin E) posted his blood tests online, exhibited a 10x increase in testosterone. You read that right – basically a thousand percent! And he wasn’t some supplement-industry shill, either – just a regular guy who wanted to boost his testosterone levels, bought a Fadogia product, and shelled out his own cash for blood work to see if the stuff was actually working.

A follow-up study to that original one, aimed at investigating the relative safety of the herb, found that there Fadogia use didn’t cause any clinical toxicity symptoms and that organ to body weight ratios of the test animals were similar to those of the control group (meaning that the extract did not cause any swelling, shrinking, or growth of the kidney or liver).

It was first used in Africa, hundreds of years ago, to improve libido fertility – not an insignificant consideration during a time when the population of a tribe would have been directly proportional to its ability to survive. In fact, that’s usually the first thing users report – a strong, sustained increase in sex drive. Judging from user feedback on the popular message boards, Fadogia seems to have one of the best success rates for users, and easily one of the highest customer loyalty rates.

Honestly, there are tons of herbs on the market that can boost sex drive, although very few of them do it through increasing testosterone levels. With Fadogia use, users not only get an increase in testosterone that obviously helps with libido, but it can also help them get stronger, build muscle and burn fat.

It’s probably a fair assumption that most guys who use Fadogia agrestis are primarily concerned with the muscle building and libido enhancing effects. However, a recent study published in the September, 2010, issue of Neurophysiology, has also shown that the herb has potent analgesic (pain relieving) and anti-inflammatory properties. So if you’ve ever taken a couple of aspirin after a hard workout or game, you might find that your regular dose of Fadogia is more than enough to keep you from getting too sore. This is, as far as I know, a property unique to Fadogia among all test-boosters, and it’s actually a great one-two punch for intense athletes. You see, the testosterone boosting properties of the herb will help you get more aggressive with your training in the gym, and move more weight (ultimately leading to more gains), while the anti-inflammatory and analgesic properties of the herb will help keep you coming back, day after day, without getting overly sore.

This added recovery effect is probably one of the reasons we see users getting in the gym, day after day, week after week, on a Fadogia cycle, and still not feeling beat up. All of the extra testosterone in the world isn’t going to help if you’re too sore to train.

But what happens when you stop taking Fadogia? It’s relative safety on the internal organs has been well documented, as has its ability to boost testosterone and libido, but what actually happens to the ol’ testosterone factory (yes, your testicles) when you stop using the herb? Most testosterone boosters don’t have a lot of data available on the post-use effects, but this one does, in the form of a published, peer-reviewed study, and it’s very promising.
(read the rest on the link, including the original study).

The product that contains bulbine is PhytoSerms-347. Have you tried either HCGenerate or PhytoSerms, or products with similar ingredients? I've personally used PhytoSerms with good effects (not prohormone level, but noticeable), and have used many products with Testofen (though not HCGenerate).

A quick google or pubmed search will yield more information and enlightenment my friend.
 

ssbackwards

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I think this is my favorite part, because in the absence of having been using a SERM on cycle, and in the absence of running testosterone or an aromatizing compound for the cycle, there isn't any estrogen buildup. As your body creates the estrogen from the androgens you have nothing to worry about estrogen buildup particularly when "androgen levels are low".
remember non aromatizing compounds can free up e2 and estron sulfate from SHBG causing gyno sympton even on non aromatizing steroids.

also, estrone sulphates converted to estradiol therefor can cause gyno as well.

Also the OP said to lower SHBG. unfortunately its a necessary evil in PCT and serves a proptective function in gyno.
 

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