The Very BEST PCT for 2011 -- Right Here - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

The Very BEST PCT for 2011 -- Right Here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimber.45 View Post
    Creatine makes me look 10 years younger - my face loses its definition and my body resembles the Stay Puft marshmallow man. I retained more water on creatine than 1ad/4ad cycle. The only natural supplement that helped with water retention was dandelion root, but then the strength effects of creatine went away of course. Wow Milas, we are off topic... This thread has pretty much died.
    LOL, I think so! When you start talking about creatine and dandelions in PCT!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    LOL, when I was in college Creatine was cutting edge! I was "hardcore" when I used it, and my friends all looked at me differently from then on...
    I remember in HS my mom was all freaked out about me using it lol
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    thats weird that there are proven studies on fadogia when no one even knows the main constituent in fadogia that supposedly has T increasing effects.

    so they extracted, what exactly?

    as for testofen, i don't believe increasing insulin sensitivity can quite pass for ''acting like testosterone''.

    wtf does this even mean?

    ''Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever. ''

    OK let me get this straight : testofen acts as a ''synthetic androgen'' which occupies ARs so that our bodies produce more test? you sure you weren't blazed when you wrote that? what the hell is testofen binding to?


    where the hell are these proven studies that HCGENERATE LESSENS SUPPRESSION? who's a$$ was that pulled from?

    i just laughed again when i read the ingredient profile and price on the **** website. thanks guys.

    hcgenerate doesnt even have bulbine in it anymore from what i can tell. is the vitamin E even full spectrum with tocotrienols?
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    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    thats weird that there are proven studies on fadogia when no one even knows the main constituent in fadogia that supposedly has T increasing effects.

    so they extracted, what exactly?

    as for testofen, i don't believe increasing insulin sensitivity can quite pass for ''acting like testosterone''.

    wtf does this even mean?

    ''Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever. ''

    OK let me get this straight : testofen acts as a ''synthetic androgen'' which occupies ARs so that our bodies produce more test? you sure you weren't blazed when you wrote that? what the hell is testofen binding to?


    where the hell are these proven studies that HCGENERATE LESSENS SUPPRESSION? who's a$$ was that pulled from?

    i just laughed again when i read the ingredient profile and price on the **** website. thanks guys.

    hcgenerate doesnt even have bulbine in it anymore from what i can tell. is the vitamin E even full spectrum with tocotrienols?
    For Testofen, I think you're confusing that extract with 4-hydroxyisoleucine extracted from the seeds for increased glycogen resynthesis (this is actually quite different than "insulin sensitivity"). Testofen is a phyto-testosterone, meaning it binds to androgen receptors (AR) and simulates the effects of testosterone (see study below). Also, Testofen is not the same as bulk Fenugreek, and it will not make you lactate either!

    The effects of a commercially available botanical ... [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2010] - PubMed result
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20979623

    BACKGROUND:

    Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) is a leguminous, annual plant originating in India and North Africa. In recent years Fenugreek has been touted as an ergogenic aid. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of Fenugreek supplementation on strength and body composition.
    METHODS:

    49 Resistance trained men were matched according to body weight and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner capsules containing 500 mg of a placebo (N = 23, 20 1.9 years, 178 6.3 cm, 85 12.7 kg, 17 5.6 %BF) or Fenugreek (N = 26, 21 2.8 years, 178 6 cm, 90 18.2 kg, 19.3 8.4 %BF). Subjects participated in a supervised 4-day per week periodized resistance-training program split into two upper and two lower extremity workouts per week for a total of 8-weeks. At 0, 4, and 8-weeks, subjects underwent hydrodensiometery body composition, 1-RM strength, muscle endurance, and anaerobic capacity testing. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA and are presented as mean SD changes from baseline after 60-days.
    RESULTS:

    No significant differences (p > 0.05) between groups were noted for training volume. Significant group time interaction effects were observed among groups in changes in body fat (FEN: -2.3 1.4%BF; PL: -0.39 1.6 %BF, p < 0.001), leg press 1-RM (FEN: 84.6 36.2 kg; PL: 48 29.5 kg, p < 0.001), and bench press 1-RM (FEN: 9.1 6.9 kg; PL: 4.3 5.6 kg, p = 0.01). No significant interactions was observed among groups for Wingate power analysis (p = 0.95) or muscular endurance on bench press (p = 0.87) or leg press (p = 0.61). In addition, there were no changes among groups in any clinical safety data including lipid panel, liver function, kidney function, and/or CBC panel (p > 0.05).
    CONCLUSION:

    It is concluded that 500 mg of this proprietary Fenugreek extraction had a significant impact on both upper- and lower-body strength and body composition in comparison to placebo in a double blind controlled trial. These changes were obtained with no clinical side effects.

    Fadogia:
    http://www.**********************/blo...riginal-study/
    Fadogia agrestis boosts testosterone 600% – the original study!
    If you’re new to the bodybuilding world or the supplement scene, you’re probably just hearing about Fadogia agrestis – one of the most effective testosterone-boosting herbs to ever hit the market. But a lot of you are probably wondering where this information came from? Is there any science behind it, or is is it all hype? A lot of testosterone-boosters in the past have turned out to just be libido boosters (Tribulus, for example). But Fadogia is totally different – it works by increasing intratesticular cholesterol levels, which are used by your body to synthesize more testosterone.

    We learned this information several years ago, when a group of scientists in Africa decided to take a look at the herb, because indigenous people had been using it for the past several centuries for fertility purposes. The scientists knew that it appeared to work, but they just didn’t know why. It could have been that the herb increased spermatogenesis (sperm production) and libido (sex drive) without having an effect on testosterone (again, Tribulus is a great example of this). And believe it or not, some test-boosting herbs like Holy Basil, can absolutely wreck your natural endocrine system. One study showed that while the Indian herb Holy Basil will elevate testosterone, it lowers luteinizing hormone (a hormone that is secreted pulses to signal the release of testosterone), as well as Follicle Stimulating Hormone (which is necessary for sperm production).In fact, sperm count was decreased by 45% with this stuff, while luteinizing hormone actually becomes undetectable! We don’t think this is a good trade-off, especially when there’s better options.

    And although this might seem like an odd observation, it’s doubtful that we’re ever going to see a bunch of really great testosterone AND libido/fertility boosting herbs from a place like India (*or China for that matter). It’s far more likely that we’re going to continue seeing them from places like Africa. Why? Because China and India are very heavily populated; representing the two most populous countries in the world. Traditionally, they would not have needed to rely on herbs to increase their numbers. Africa, on the other hand, is much more sparsely populated, and often the amount of children a tribe could produce would be the deciding factor in which tribes survive the next famine (or war, unfortunately). Really effective herbs will always come from traditional and folk medicine in areas of the world where there is a need for their specific function.

    Ok, so back to the research on Fadogia agrestis: A group of African scientists took a look at three different doses of Fadogia agrestis in a rodent-based study, and here’s what they found:

    •At a dose of 18mgs/kg/day the rodents ended up with 200% the testosterone levels of the control group (doubling their previous level)
    •At a dose of 50mgs/kg/day the rodents ended up with 300% the testosterone levels of the control group
    •And at the highest tested dose, the rodents ended up with a testosterone level that was 600% that of the control group
    And: http://www.**********************/blo...ogia-agrestis/
    Lately there’s been a lot of renewed interest in the testosterone-boosting herb, Fadogia agrestis as well as some naysayers writing halfwit Articles thinking they have some how “exposed my product hcgenerate” lmao . Although it’s been on the market since 2005, the stuff has been growing in popularity since then, and never been more in-demand. And why not? The original University of Ilorin in vivo study on Fadogia showed an incredible 600% testosterone increase over control values.

    One of the very first people to have purchased and used this herb as a bodybuilding supplement (which also contained zinc and vitamin E) posted his blood tests online, exhibited a 10x increase in testosterone. You read that right – basically a thousand percent! And he wasn’t some supplement-industry shill, either – just a regular guy who wanted to boost his testosterone levels, bought a Fadogia product, and shelled out his own cash for blood work to see if the stuff was actually working.

    A follow-up study to that original one, aimed at investigating the relative safety of the herb, found that there Fadogia use didn’t cause any clinical toxicity symptoms and that organ to body weight ratios of the test animals were similar to those of the control group (meaning that the extract did not cause any swelling, shrinking, or growth of the kidney or liver).

    It was first used in Africa, hundreds of years ago, to improve libido fertility – not an insignificant consideration during a time when the population of a tribe would have been directly proportional to its ability to survive. In fact, that’s usually the first thing users report – a strong, sustained increase in sex drive. Judging from user feedback on the popular message boards, Fadogia seems to have one of the best success rates for users, and easily one of the highest customer loyalty rates.

    Honestly, there are tons of herbs on the market that can boost sex drive, although very few of them do it through increasing testosterone levels. With Fadogia use, users not only get an increase in testosterone that obviously helps with libido, but it can also help them get stronger, build muscle and burn fat.

    It’s probably a fair assumption that most guys who use Fadogia agrestis are primarily concerned with the muscle building and libido enhancing effects. However, a recent study published in the September, 2010, issue of Neurophysiology, has also shown that the herb has potent analgesic (pain relieving) and anti-inflammatory properties. So if you’ve ever taken a couple of aspirin after a hard workout or game, you might find that your regular dose of Fadogia is more than enough to keep you from getting too sore. This is, as far as I know, a property unique to Fadogia among all test-boosters, and it’s actually a great one-two punch for intense athletes. You see, the testosterone boosting properties of the herb will help you get more aggressive with your training in the gym, and move more weight (ultimately leading to more gains), while the anti-inflammatory and analgesic properties of the herb will help keep you coming back, day after day, without getting overly sore.

    This added recovery effect is probably one of the reasons we see users getting in the gym, day after day, week after week, on a Fadogia cycle, and still not feeling beat up. All of the extra testosterone in the world isn’t going to help if you’re too sore to train.

    But what happens when you stop taking Fadogia? It’s relative safety on the internal organs has been well documented, as has its ability to boost testosterone and libido, but what actually happens to the ol’ testosterone factory (yes, your testicles) when you stop using the herb? Most testosterone boosters don’t have a lot of data available on the post-use effects, but this one does, in the form of a published, peer-reviewed study, and it’s very promising.
    (read the rest on the link, including the original study).

    The product that contains bulbine is PhytoSerms-347. Have you tried either HCGenerate or PhytoSerms, or products with similar ingredients? I've personally used PhytoSerms with good effects (not prohormone level, but noticeable), and have used many products with Testofen (though not HCGenerate).

    A quick google or pubmed search will yield more information and enlightenment my friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think this is my favorite part, because in the absence of having been using a SERM on cycle, and in the absence of running testosterone or an aromatizing compound for the cycle, there isn't any estrogen buildup. As your body creates the estrogen from the androgens you have nothing to worry about estrogen buildup particularly when "androgen levels are low".
    remember non aromatizing compounds can free up e2 and estron sulfate from SHBG causing gyno sympton even on non aromatizing steroids.

    also, estrone sulphates converted to estradiol therefor can cause gyno as well.

    Also the OP said to lower SHBG. unfortunately its a necessary evil in PCT and serves a proptective function in gyno.
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